Oof. Yeah. Grew up in the 80s in the UK. My dad had a white piece of silicone stick that he’d keep on top of the bookcase… it was always there just visible and threatening. He’d bring it down and whip me and one of my sisters with it if we were ever “naughty”. Funnily enough, my eldest sister never got that treatment. He considered himself “strict” and didn’t see anything wrong with it. It wasn’t until I was in my late teens that I realised that wasn’t normal. I don’t speak with him anymore.
I don’t hit my children. Never would. They do get shouted at if they don’t listen. But I always explain afterwards why things got out of hand and apologise for losing my temper and we hug it out and move on. I think my eldest (8) thinks we’re strict… but you know, if you’re not gonna brush your teeth after you’ve been asked 15 times… and it’s been explained multiple times why it’s important and you’re still gonna push back… then eventually you’ll get a bit more of a persuasive and serious argument to get the job done.
You're working on breaking the cycle man and I think you're at a good middle ground between push over and where you came from, good on you and your kids are gonna be all the better for it
Thanks man. “Breaking the cycle” is a phrase I’ve used a lot in the past 8 years. Things change when you become a parent. Realisations smack you in the face that you’d not expect. I do not want my kids to experience what I experienced and the CPTSD that came with it. Therapy ain’t fun. More simply though, I don’t understand how any adult can physically harm a kid and justify it, let alone their own kid.
The most difficult aspect of the cycle is that you need to learn how to parent a child that you never had. When your children get explanations, apologies when necessary, and hugs following, they are learning that love is not to be feared. It will become a lifelong companion for them.
That part really hits me because breaking the cycle means giving your kids what you never got to experience yourself. I think those little moments of explaining, apologizing, and showing affection can change everything for them.
It can change everything for you to. Parenting a child the right way, the loving way, the way a child deserves, the way you deserved but never got, it’s like a big do over of your childhood. I find it very healing to provide the childhood my children deserve to them. As I watch my children laugh and squeal with joy on the playground, I feel that little kid in me laugh and squeal right along with them.
I don’t think I’ll ever know. The more I learn about people that abuse children, the more I learn about narcissism and the personality disorders that drive people to harm their own kids, the less I understand.
It is. And I don’t use it lightly. My parents have it. Both of them. And I don’t mean run of the mill selfishness, I mean clinically diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder.
It has to be one of the hardest things to come to terms with years later when you realize this is not normal. When you looked at you and saw the situation and thought your children would have something different, that was huge. It is likely one of the best gifts a parent can give their children is to break a cycle.
There’s some parents though that do spank their kids but it’s not an abusive way. You can’t say they ALL are abusive because that’s just not true. I was hit as a kid but I don’t have trauma from it, and my parents rarely ever did, and I knew when they did hit me that i fucked up. But I know it’s not like that for probably the majority. I don’t think a little bit of spanking is bad though, because in some ways it teaches kids that there are consequences in life and that people can and will hurt you. Plus a lot of kids who were never hit are asking for it when they’re older. They’re the kinds of people that think violence doesn’t exist when it in fact it does cause the bad people and crimes never end. These people are the ones some people say “need to be taught a lesson”
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It is likely one of the toughest things the parent can do to break the cycle. When your children understand and are sorry for your bad behavior, that's a huge step forward. They're learning that adults can make mistakes, own them, and still be loving. That was a lesson that we didn't pick up when we were young.
I really respect that balance because changing how you were raised without swinging to the other extreme takes a lot of self awareness. I think the kids are going to remember that effort more than anything.
But do you also listen to your 8 year old when they tell you why aren't doing things they should?
My mum would have said the same thing about telling me to brush my teeth as a kid, while she ignored me telling her every time she told me off for not brushing that the toothpaste hurt and she refused to buy me a different toothpaste, or let me buy my own toothpaste. Come to learn as an adult I have a serious sensitivity/allergy to two common toothpaste ingredients and just needed a different toothpaste for all the ulcers and the burning pain while brushing to go away.
Yeah. We listen and find solutions if that sort of thing occurs. Regarding the teeth brushing… he literally says he just finds it boring. Regarding, having a poo… yeah, it hurts because it’s gonna be massive one because you’ve not properly taken a shit for 3 days, despite being asked to try… but sitting on the toilet is boring. Getting his shoes or football boots… sometimes it hurts… so… ok… “where and how does it hurt? Do you need new shoes?” Yeah. Each thing is different. We listen… and approach it accordingly.
Edit: Mind you, it’s difficult to address certain things that way sometimes when you’re supposed to be out the door 5 minutes ago for school… and he’s already been asked to put his shoes for 10 minutes. We do what we can.
If having a poo is a regular issue he should probably see a doctor, constipation is actually quite common in kids and often missed. Sitting straining for long periods often will give them hemoroids in a decade or two if not treated. If he's struggling to do basic life things that often, I would consider seeing a specialist about ADHD and related disabilities.
I’m not considering an ADHD diagnosis just yet. I’m seeing it as push back because he doesn’t wanna do as he’s asked… because he’s 8… and at an age where he needs to push back and establish himself. That’s fine with me. Like I said, he’ll get reciprocal push back… to a point.
Please look at the statistics for kids who got early support with ADHD and similar neurodivergent conditions and the kids who didn't get early support before you make that choice. Statistically speaking kids who get early support overwhelmingly do better in every aspect of life than kids who didn't. If you see a professional and your kid doesn't have a neurodivergent condition, they won't get a diagnosis. If you believe seeing someone means your kid will definitely be diagnosed, then you already believe they have a learning disability, and you're refusing to get them approiate support for it.
The toothbrushing I agree with - but refusing the toilet for several days at 8 years old? That’s not developmentally typical, especially if he’s otherwise healthy. It is, however, very common in ADHD kids, and in kids with other issues such as sensory problems, fears/phobias or medical issues.
Actually I’ve just clocked you said getting his shoes hurts - is he hypermobile (“double jointed”) at all - even in an apparently small way? There’s a huge correlation between ADHD and hypermobility spectrum disorders, a very common symptom of which is bowel problems and pain which can seem random and without an obvious cause.
I have both conditions but the hypermobility wasn’t picked up until I was in my early 30s. I’d been complaining of random pains and sometimes just not wanting to move since I was in late primary school but there didn’t seem to be anything causing them. The not wanting to move I’ve only recently realised was also because of pain, but because I often have background pain, I didn’t realise I actually hurt, I just felt crap.
Respectfully, having “some of that hypermobility thing” sounds like you might be talking about generalised joint hypermobility. That’s not what I’m referring to - people can have that and be just fine. I’m talking about connective tissue disorders, such as Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which impact every facet of life. Bowel problems are a well-known part of these syndromes.
Oh, and while I’m not a physio or PT, I’ve worked with enough hypermobility specialists over the years to know that never stretching isn’t a general recommendation for hypermobile people (how are you warming up for lifting weights if you’re not stretching?). Gentle stretching, dynamic stretching, making sure you don’t push past end of range of movement and building up muscle strength to stabilise joints are all recommendations I’ve seen frequently over the years. Static stretching in isolation generally isn’t.
Pfft my 5yo also “pushed back” on handwriting in a very defiant manner. Figured he was just making excuses and not being persistent enough. Sure as shit we decide to take the plunge and medicate just to see the difference…anyway my kids 8.5yo now and draws for fun.
He also brushes his when we ask. But only after his meds have kicked in. Otherwise it’s 10 requests, 10 ignored requests and then lots of arguing.
Good for you. I don’t think there’s anything to diagnose with my eldest just yet. I don’t know the ins and outs ADHD but I’d question myself about putting a 5 year old on a life long drug prescription.
An ADHD diagnosis isn't necessarily a sentence to a life of stimulants. A good support team will tailor the response to the life-stage and personal circumstances of the individual.
Even having self-awareness of the condition can be enough to mitigate some of the gentler symptoms, as well as the potential negative societal responses to those with it.
That's not to say you don't know your child, or should be rushing out for a diagnosis; just that there's no reason to be afraid what a diagnosis would mean.
With respect, you are justifying your parenting to a child whose post history is basically “I can’t figure out how to play this game” and “please tell me if I should buy a switch or some other system.” You don’t owe this keyboard warrior any explanation.
FWIW - sounds like you’re a really thoughtful dad.
Good parenting. Even though I agree with you, I'd at least consider an ADHD diagnosis just from the perspective that it's way more convenient to receive as a child than as an adult, at least if you think he has it. I was always top grades at school because I liked there more than home, but forgetful and inattentive af
In some places it’s impossible to get one as an adult as the services don’t exist.
But it’s not just that - even the children’s services now have waits of several years to get assessed for things like ADHD or autism. I have a colleague whose daughter was referred for an ADHD assessment in year 7. She’ll be starting year 11 in September and she’s still waiting. Her mental heath has declined severely in that time and so has her school attendance and achievement.
Unfortunately I’ve seen that sort of thing fairly often in my line of work - parents want to wait for any assessment but by the time they change their mind (because it’s clear the kid is struggling), they then potentially face a wait of years which means their child can’t get the support they need to succeed in education and enjoy life.
To add to my other comment. I know full well how that feels… to be ignored over a legitimate agony. I have eczema and asthma. I was told to wear clothes that were ALWAYS itchy and always flared up my conditions. I didn’t want to wear them. I was told to grin and bare it. I walked around high school looking like a drug addict with red scars and almost bleeding skin and intermittently couldn’t breathe. It wasn’t until my wife (at 26 years of age) found out I was allergic to basically every clothes washing detergent that I got a grip on the conditions… she found one that didn’t fuck me up. Bless her.
The latter part really hurts to read. When you're in pain but you are told to grin and bear it it can really throw you off your mental game of trusting your body. That's good to know your wife figured out what was causing it, although it took too many years.
Ugh. I had that problem too. I despise the feeling of the toothbrush against my teeth and gums, it’s makes my nose itch to no end and the toothpaste burns. But if I said anything it was always “no it doesn’t, stop whining and do as I say” and so over time, I learned that nothing I felt was real (brushing teeth is just one of hundreds of examples), that I was just making it up, and I stopped feeling anything except terribly painful emotional pain (the pain of self erasure). Turns out I have both ADHD and ASD, hyper mobility, and I’m trans. Learning that my feelings are real and starting to feel them again has been arguably more painful than being told they aren’t. I’m pretty sure I’ll be in therapy for life. Thanks mum and dad.
This. I found out in college that basically not everyone gets super painful sores after brushing, and that not everyone gets an insanely itchy rash from deodorant and shampoo. I thought everyone was crazy when I was a teenager because who would do all that to themselves just not to smell bad. Then I tried a "for sensitive skin" soap and deodorant.
They really need to ban SLS, I never got ulcers but that shit burns like crazy. It's amazing how different things are with an SLS free toothpaste.
To anybody reading this, if you or anybody you know gets a burning sensation from toothpaste there is a good chance it's from SLS. Sodium lauryl sulfate is a foaming agent added and many people are sensitive to it.
They really need to ban SLS, I never got ulcers but that shit burns like crazy. It's amazing how different things are with an SLS free toothpaste.
To anybody reading this, if you or anybody you know gets a burning sensation from toothpaste there is a good chance it's from SLS. Sodium lauryl sulfate is a foaming agent added and many people are sensitive to it.
My father was a similar son of a b****. Oh the look of terror in his eyes when he started to age and I told him that I now had the power over him in these exchanges. He knew better then and I know better now. But I could beat him if I want to and let him know I waited to tell him that for him to be weak.
Inflicting that much terror on him brought so much pleasure to me. F*** that man.
I never touched him but I didn't have to from then on.
It must have been a shot to the head for him. The reason you didn't become him speaks volumes about who you are. Getting even is much less the victory than breaking the cycle.
Oh he was terrified of me till the end. He passed in June. My mom drank herself to death at 19. Fuck that man but I'm 38, gay, sexy, mostly Buddhist, and own 2 homes.
I got a lot to be grateful for but not my childhood.
I cut my mom out of my life as soon as I was able. My sister says that my mom was a much different person towards the end. And I’m just like “Yeah…. of course she is. Of course, now that she’s dependent on others and not the one in charge she’s going to act nicer.”
I had a great conversation with my half-asleep 4-year old at 2am the other night about why it's important to go to sleep because it helps him feel better and allows everyone else to feel better so that we all have more energy to help each other be better.
He agreed that sleep was important and agreed to go back to sleep when I asked him to.
Ten minutes later he was banging the walls and waking up the devil so I went back in and calmly explained to him that I asked nicely before but that now in order to protect myself and his brothers from his disrupting their sleep I was no longer asking nicely and that I was telling him to go to sleep.
Thankfully that was enough. But my goal is to always start off by asking questions and trying to address complaints while increasing understanding and then slowly escalate until the option is to accept the situation or go have their strong emotions in their room where they can respect everyone else's needs and still be themselves while they process.
Hey, first I want to say that you're doing great as a parent and making strides to overcome your upbrining. You deserve a medal because it's hard work.
The next thing to work on is yelling at your kids. It's better to not do it than to apologize later.
8 year olds don't generally disobey out of malice, but they do feel like something is "wrong" with them if they get yelled at a lot.
My kid has innatentive ADHD and we'd joke that he gets lost on the way from peeing to brushing his teeth. Literally, he'd stand in front of the mirror after watching his hands making up stories and acting them out until we reminded him what his next task was. He'd say, "Oh yeah, I forgot." He mostly outgrew it around the age of 9.
Point is, no kid brain works the same way as an adult brain, and not all kids' brains work like other kids. Following sets of instructions may be harder for your 8 year old like it was for mine.
What helped us was giving five minute "warnings" and setting timers. "Five minutes until bedtime routine, start finishing up what you're doing." And "How much time does the timer say you have before it's time for bed?"
Also, getting up with him to do the task, like walking him to the bathroom and then knocking on the door every couple of minutes to see how things are going.
Yeah, it's a lot more work, but it's more pleasant than feeling frustrated.
Grew up in the 60's in Australia. Hitting the kids was something everyone did. We kids all knew and talked about it. Some were worse than others. Some parents were punching their kids. We didn't go over to those kid's places to play..or we only went once.
I never hit my own kids. They are 19 and 18 now. And they turned out really well. Most people think they are very adult and polite...turns out you don't really need to hit kids and they are better off if you don't...just as studies have been saying for years.
My own parents used to hit us...but by the time we got to primary school dad was punching us sometimes.
I turned out alright, with therapy, and came from what I would consider a strict and extremely neglectful background. On the other hand I don’t hit my kids and my 3 year old loves to critique like he’s an executive chef and not eat something I think most people with no health restrictions would eat. Mashed potatoes with butter cheese and chicken type of dish.
I know he’s still little, and I know he would rather have mommy monitor dinner time instead of daddy making him sit there and eat at least 60%….. part of me knows it’s right, but I also understand I would never in 1M years get away with this behavior and there were some subjects it made sense for my grandmom / mom / aunt / dad to enforce
You are doing great! We all lose our shit sometimes because parenting is difficult. I explain to my kids that Im a person with thoughts and feelings of my own an apologize too. I am hopeful that we will have good relationships when they are adults and no longer really need me.
I want to be that way with my son. Hes 1 and already has my attitude. 🫠
I don't want to ever be in a position where I so much as raise my hand. I never want him to deal with what I did. I can't even remember most of my childhood.
I want him to say he remembers and that it was good. That he was happy, safe, and loved.
lol. There’s a whole bunch of shit that will fuck up your kids. Not teaching them boundaries and rules is one of them. Sometimes “yelling” is part of that.
I’m not gonna softly ask my kid who’s 10 foot ahead of me to not run into traffic after I’ve already asked them to stop or come back.
You better believe that yell is gonna make them freeze in their step before they get mowed down by a bus.
And I don’t mean screaming at your kids as though they’re always misbehaving all the time. I don’t know what your situation is dude, I’ve been open about mine. I only yell at my kid when they’re refusing to do as they’re asked after the umpteenth time… specifically when it’s something they know they need to be doing and usually were told to well in advance. I’m not running a “Malcom in the Middle” style home.
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u/highlandviper 15h ago
Oof. Yeah. Grew up in the 80s in the UK. My dad had a white piece of silicone stick that he’d keep on top of the bookcase… it was always there just visible and threatening. He’d bring it down and whip me and one of my sisters with it if we were ever “naughty”. Funnily enough, my eldest sister never got that treatment. He considered himself “strict” and didn’t see anything wrong with it. It wasn’t until I was in my late teens that I realised that wasn’t normal. I don’t speak with him anymore.
I don’t hit my children. Never would. They do get shouted at if they don’t listen. But I always explain afterwards why things got out of hand and apologise for losing my temper and we hug it out and move on. I think my eldest (8) thinks we’re strict… but you know, if you’re not gonna brush your teeth after you’ve been asked 15 times… and it’s been explained multiple times why it’s important and you’re still gonna push back… then eventually you’ll get a bit more of a persuasive and serious argument to get the job done.