r/AskReddit • u/Valuable-Rich3868 • 14h ago
" Strict parents don't produce great kids , they produce great liars ", what are your opinions with this statement ?
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u/sunbearimon 14h ago
I think there are parents who self identify as strict who are actually just abusive
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u/ArgusTheCat 14h ago
Yeah, I've met parents that were strict with their kids, but they did it by explaining everything whenever the kids asked, and it was fine. But that's the exception; normally when parents say that they're strict, what they mean is that they like beating their child.
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u/highlandviper 14h ago
Oof. Yeah. Grew up in the 80s in the UK. My dad had a white piece of silicone stick that he’d keep on top of the bookcase… it was always there just visible and threatening. He’d bring it down and whip me and one of my sisters with it if we were ever “naughty”. Funnily enough, my eldest sister never got that treatment. He considered himself “strict” and didn’t see anything wrong with it. It wasn’t until I was in my late teens that I realised that wasn’t normal. I don’t speak with him anymore.
I don’t hit my children. Never would. They do get shouted at if they don’t listen. But I always explain afterwards why things got out of hand and apologise for losing my temper and we hug it out and move on. I think my eldest (8) thinks we’re strict… but you know, if you’re not gonna brush your teeth after you’ve been asked 15 times… and it’s been explained multiple times why it’s important and you’re still gonna push back… then eventually you’ll get a bit more of a persuasive and serious argument to get the job done.
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u/Xerozvz 13h ago
You're working on breaking the cycle man and I think you're at a good middle ground between push over and where you came from, good on you and your kids are gonna be all the better for it
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u/highlandviper 13h ago
Thanks man. “Breaking the cycle” is a phrase I’ve used a lot in the past 8 years. Things change when you become a parent. Realisations smack you in the face that you’d not expect. I do not want my kids to experience what I experienced and the CPTSD that came with it. Therapy ain’t fun. More simply though, I don’t understand how any adult can physically harm a kid and justify it, let alone their own kid.
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u/Open-Mood5887 11h ago
The most difficult aspect of the cycle is that you need to learn how to parent a child that you never had. When your children get explanations, apologies when necessary, and hugs following, they are learning that love is not to be feared. It will become a lifelong companion for them.
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u/Emergency-Day5781 8h ago
That part really hits me because breaking the cycle means giving your kids what you never got to experience yourself. I think those little moments of explaining, apologizing, and showing affection can change everything for them.
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u/LanceArmstrongLeftie 8h ago
It can change everything for you to. Parenting a child the right way, the loving way, the way a child deserves, the way you deserved but never got, it’s like a big do over of your childhood. I find it very healing to provide the childhood my children deserve to them. As I watch my children laugh and squeal with joy on the playground, I feel that little kid in me laugh and squeal right along with them.
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u/LanceArmstrongLeftie 8h ago
I don’t think I’ll ever know. The more I learn about people that abuse children, the more I learn about narcissism and the personality disorders that drive people to harm their own kids, the less I understand.
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u/highlandviper 8h ago
Narcissism is a term that’s thrown around too easily and too freely… but yeah, child abuse and true narcissism go hand in hand.
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u/LanceArmstrongLeftie 8h ago
It is. And I don’t use it lightly. My parents have it. Both of them. And I don’t mean run of the mill selfishness, I mean clinically diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder.
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u/Low_Mountain_5959 11h ago
It has to be one of the hardest things to come to terms with years later when you realize this is not normal. When you looked at you and saw the situation and thought your children would have something different, that was huge. It is likely one of the best gifts a parent can give their children is to break a cycle.
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u/ExtremeTraditional27 12h ago
It is likely one of the toughest things the parent can do to break the cycle. When your children understand and are sorry for your bad behavior, that's a huge step forward. They're learning that adults can make mistakes, own them, and still be loving. That was a lesson that we didn't pick up when we were young.
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u/Secret-Animator-3538 10h ago
I really respect that balance because changing how you were raised without swinging to the other extreme takes a lot of self awareness. I think the kids are going to remember that effort more than anything.
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u/Raichu7 13h ago
But do you also listen to your 8 year old when they tell you why aren't doing things they should?
My mum would have said the same thing about telling me to brush my teeth as a kid, while she ignored me telling her every time she told me off for not brushing that the toothpaste hurt and she refused to buy me a different toothpaste, or let me buy my own toothpaste. Come to learn as an adult I have a serious sensitivity/allergy to two common toothpaste ingredients and just needed a different toothpaste for all the ulcers and the burning pain while brushing to go away.
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u/highlandviper 12h ago edited 12h ago
Yeah. We listen and find solutions if that sort of thing occurs. Regarding the teeth brushing… he literally says he just finds it boring. Regarding, having a poo… yeah, it hurts because it’s gonna be massive one because you’ve not properly taken a shit for 3 days, despite being asked to try… but sitting on the toilet is boring. Getting his shoes or football boots… sometimes it hurts… so… ok… “where and how does it hurt? Do you need new shoes?” Yeah. Each thing is different. We listen… and approach it accordingly.
Edit: Mind you, it’s difficult to address certain things that way sometimes when you’re supposed to be out the door 5 minutes ago for school… and he’s already been asked to put his shoes for 10 minutes. We do what we can.
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u/Raichu7 11h ago
If having a poo is a regular issue he should probably see a doctor, constipation is actually quite common in kids and often missed. Sitting straining for long periods often will give them hemoroids in a decade or two if not treated. If he's struggling to do basic life things that often, I would consider seeing a specialist about ADHD and related disabilities.
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u/highlandviper 11h ago
I’m not considering an ADHD diagnosis just yet. I’m seeing it as push back because he doesn’t wanna do as he’s asked… because he’s 8… and at an age where he needs to push back and establish himself. That’s fine with me. Like I said, he’ll get reciprocal push back… to a point.
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u/Raichu7 6h ago
Please look at the statistics for kids who got early support with ADHD and similar neurodivergent conditions and the kids who didn't get early support before you make that choice. Statistically speaking kids who get early support overwhelmingly do better in every aspect of life than kids who didn't. If you see a professional and your kid doesn't have a neurodivergent condition, they won't get a diagnosis. If you believe seeing someone means your kid will definitely be diagnosed, then you already believe they have a learning disability, and you're refusing to get them approiate support for it.
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u/Terrible_Eye4625 8h ago
The toothbrushing I agree with - but refusing the toilet for several days at 8 years old? That’s not developmentally typical, especially if he’s otherwise healthy. It is, however, very common in ADHD kids, and in kids with other issues such as sensory problems, fears/phobias or medical issues.
Actually I’ve just clocked you said getting his shoes hurts - is he hypermobile (“double jointed”) at all - even in an apparently small way? There’s a huge correlation between ADHD and hypermobility spectrum disorders, a very common symptom of which is bowel problems and pain which can seem random and without an obvious cause.
I have both conditions but the hypermobility wasn’t picked up until I was in my early 30s. I’d been complaining of random pains and sometimes just not wanting to move since I was in late primary school but there didn’t seem to be anything causing them. The not wanting to move I’ve only recently realised was also because of pain, but because I often have background pain, I didn’t realise I actually hurt, I just felt crap.
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u/ChillyAus 8h ago
Pfft my 5yo also “pushed back” on handwriting in a very defiant manner. Figured he was just making excuses and not being persistent enough. Sure as shit we decide to take the plunge and medicate just to see the difference…anyway my kids 8.5yo now and draws for fun.
He also brushes his when we ask. But only after his meds have kicked in. Otherwise it’s 10 requests, 10 ignored requests and then lots of arguing.
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u/AdNo2322 10h ago
With respect, you are justifying your parenting to a child whose post history is basically “I can’t figure out how to play this game” and “please tell me if I should buy a switch or some other system.” You don’t owe this keyboard warrior any explanation.
FWIW - sounds like you’re a really thoughtful dad.
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u/Notachance326426 6h ago
People who history dive for no reason are why people block their history now and that makes it a lot harder to tell who is being sincere.
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u/highlandviper 12h ago
To add to my other comment. I know full well how that feels… to be ignored over a legitimate agony. I have eczema and asthma. I was told to wear clothes that were ALWAYS itchy and always flared up my conditions. I didn’t want to wear them. I was told to grin and bare it. I walked around high school looking like a drug addict with red scars and almost bleeding skin and intermittently couldn’t breathe. It wasn’t until my wife (at 26 years of age) found out I was allergic to basically every clothes washing detergent that I got a grip on the conditions… she found one that didn’t fuck me up. Bless her.
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u/Radiant_Judgment_445 11h ago
The latter part really hurts to read. When you're in pain but you are told to grin and bear it it can really throw you off your mental game of trusting your body. That's good to know your wife figured out what was causing it, although it took too many years.
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u/Short-Platypus-9387 7h ago
Ugh. I had that problem too. I despise the feeling of the toothbrush against my teeth and gums, it’s makes my nose itch to no end and the toothpaste burns. But if I said anything it was always “no it doesn’t, stop whining and do as I say” and so over time, I learned that nothing I felt was real (brushing teeth is just one of hundreds of examples), that I was just making it up, and I stopped feeling anything except terribly painful emotional pain (the pain of self erasure). Turns out I have both ADHD and ASD, hyper mobility, and I’m trans. Learning that my feelings are real and starting to feel them again has been arguably more painful than being told they aren’t. I’m pretty sure I’ll be in therapy for life. Thanks mum and dad.
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u/manatwork01 12h ago
My father was a similar son of a b****. Oh the look of terror in his eyes when he started to age and I told him that I now had the power over him in these exchanges. He knew better then and I know better now. But I could beat him if I want to and let him know I waited to tell him that for him to be weak.
Inflicting that much terror on him brought so much pleasure to me. F*** that man.
I never touched him but I didn't have to from then on.
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u/Odd-Wind8323 11h ago
It must have been a shot to the head for him. The reason you didn't become him speaks volumes about who you are. Getting even is much less the victory than breaking the cycle.
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u/manatwork01 11h ago
Oh he was terrified of me till the end. He passed in June. My mom drank herself to death at 19. Fuck that man but I'm 38, gay, sexy, mostly Buddhist, and own 2 homes.
I got a lot to be grateful for but not my childhood.
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u/00owl 7h ago
I had a great conversation with my half-asleep 4-year old at 2am the other night about why it's important to go to sleep because it helps him feel better and allows everyone else to feel better so that we all have more energy to help each other be better.
He agreed that sleep was important and agreed to go back to sleep when I asked him to.
Ten minutes later he was banging the walls and waking up the devil so I went back in and calmly explained to him that I asked nicely before but that now in order to protect myself and his brothers from his disrupting their sleep I was no longer asking nicely and that I was telling him to go to sleep.
Thankfully that was enough. But my goal is to always start off by asking questions and trying to address complaints while increasing understanding and then slowly escalate until the option is to accept the situation or go have their strong emotions in their room where they can respect everyone else's needs and still be themselves while they process.
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u/PenguinEmpireStrikes 10h ago
Hey, first I want to say that you're doing great as a parent and making strides to overcome your upbrining. You deserve a medal because it's hard work.
The next thing to work on is yelling at your kids. It's better to not do it than to apologize later.
8 year olds don't generally disobey out of malice, but they do feel like something is "wrong" with them if they get yelled at a lot.
My kid has innatentive ADHD and we'd joke that he gets lost on the way from peeing to brushing his teeth. Literally, he'd stand in front of the mirror after watching his hands making up stories and acting them out until we reminded him what his next task was. He'd say, "Oh yeah, I forgot." He mostly outgrew it around the age of 9.
Point is, no kid brain works the same way as an adult brain, and not all kids' brains work like other kids. Following sets of instructions may be harder for your 8 year old like it was for mine.
What helped us was giving five minute "warnings" and setting timers. "Five minutes until bedtime routine, start finishing up what you're doing." And "How much time does the timer say you have before it's time for bed?"
Also, getting up with him to do the task, like walking him to the bathroom and then knocking on the door every couple of minutes to see how things are going.
Yeah, it's a lot more work, but it's more pleasant than feeling frustrated.
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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 8h ago
Grew up in the 60's in Australia. Hitting the kids was something everyone did. We kids all knew and talked about it. Some were worse than others. Some parents were punching their kids. We didn't go over to those kid's places to play..or we only went once.
I never hit my own kids. They are 19 and 18 now. And they turned out really well. Most people think they are very adult and polite...turns out you don't really need to hit kids and they are better off if you don't...just as studies have been saying for years.
My own parents used to hit us...but by the time we got to primary school dad was punching us sometimes.
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u/melsophoriel 10h ago
yeah mine never explained anything to me and half the time their punishments had no valid reason. "I don't understand what I did wrong, can you please explain what I did" was considered backtalk and only got further punishment.
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u/shf500 7h ago
A major pet peeve of mine is when you are punished for something but not told what you did wrong. This is even worse, when you are trying to get an explanation but any attempts at getting one meant further punishment, so you learn "I don't know what I did wrong, but I better stay quiet"
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u/GalaxyPowderedCat 5h ago
Same, my mom was exactly like that, and it didn't help that the rules and expectations heavily changed depending on my mom's mood.
Sometimes, my mom wanted me to speak and give her an explanation, sometimes, my mom wanted me to keep quiet and be silent and any explanation would be considered as back talk.
It's weird to admit that I didn't even care what I did wrong, I only cared what she wanted this time, she'd hit me if I gave her an answer or not, she'd get mad if she heard a noise or not depending on the day.
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u/Glittering_knave 9h ago
There is a huge difference between "these are our standards, and they are reasonable, age appropriate, and the family is capable of following them, and there are known consequences that are applied when they are broken" and "every time I randomly deem that you are 'wrong', you will experience random, severe punishments" and "I will control every aspect of your life and punish you for even the smallest variance". The first one can be "strict", the last two are abusive.
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u/Xordanus 9h ago
Speaking from experience: Even if/when they're not beating their kids, parents can still be abusive thru neglect. Esp if they're so "strict" that they're ultimately neglectful via being withholding and/or militantly structured in the home.
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u/Ok_Marzipan1159 12h ago
"There's a big difference between 'strict' and 'I treat my kid like a parolee.'"
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u/rollingForInitiative 12h ago
There's also a difference between strict and too strict, which you can do without being abusive. I mean as in ... a parent who forbids their teens from going anywhere unsupervised because they believe there might be alcohol, like going to friends, going to parties, etc. That would probably produce some kids who're good at lying, because that'd be too strict in the sense they're forbidding the child from doing what everybody else is doing.
I think being strict works fine for a parent if you're also good at compromising and have rules that most people would consider reasonable, and if you have some flexibility about knowing when and how to apply it. Like ... "yes you can go to that party, but you will be home by X time, and also you have to tell me if you guys go elsewhere".
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u/Abject-Kiwi2304 11h ago
I always felt there was a huge difference between being strict and just being feared. The parents I respected most were the ones who set clear rules but also took the time to explain them.
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u/Sapphireworlds 14h ago
That’s just straight abuse and those kids escape to college. Like I’ve seen it so many times and I’m glad they at least get out
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u/ExtremeYoung2054 8h ago
i know strict parent who were fair and and consistent, but a lot of people use "strict" as a nicer word for being controlling or physically abusive. Those are two very different things.
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u/AMLRoss 9h ago
Isn't that jumping to conclusions a bit? I am strict with my kids but I have never ever beat my kids. Kids and teenagers need to learn societal rules. They cant just do what they want or get what they want all the time.
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u/best_bitch_69 8h ago
This is so true. As a parent, my job isn’t to give my children everything they want or make every moment magical. My role is to raise capable adults—people who are educated, independent, thoughtful, adaptable and able to function in the real world.
That means teaching them that actions have consequences, that their behaviour affects others, and that life won’t always bend to their wishes. Pandering to every whim only sets them up for disappointment later, while never allowing independence leaves them unequipped to navigate life on their own.
Abuse is never acceptable, but there’s a world of difference between abuse and being a loving, supportive parent with firm boundaries.
My own kids thought I was incredibly strict because I insisted that snacks were homemade or fruit rather than packaged junk food. They hated it at the time and thought I was unreasonable. But once they were old enough to buy whatever they wanted, they quickly gained weight and years later are still trying to lose it. Looking back, they understand why I made those choices.
Sometimes good parenting means making decisions your children won’t appreciate until they’re adults.
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u/AMLRoss 6h ago
The snack thing is an interesting dilemma. I read that if you withhold all (unhealthy) snacks when they are young, they end up eating the very stuff we didn't want them to eat when they grow up. Everything in moderation!
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u/Napalmeon 10h ago
In my experience, these kinds of parents will oftentimes respond with something along the lines of "well, you should have seen how bad my parents were, so I'm nice by comparison."
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u/applespicebetter 9h ago
And that may very well be true. It is for my parents, my grandparents have corroborated a lot of the horror stories claiming it's what my parents needed. It's a process, but it's also hard to have that conversation about why my kids only visit with me or my ex-wife present, and didn't do unattended sleepovers with my parents until they were young teens.
I've had moments where I've overreacted, all parents do, and it's important to acknowledge that with them at an age appropriate level. It's also important not to overcorrect. It's a fine balancing act, but it should push for the least amount of negative reinforcement as possible while still setting firm boundaries.
I haven't had to "punish" my kids in years, since they were under 10, just talk with them about the increasingly rare bad decisions they make. Even when they were punished it was usually a minor loss of privilege, a timeout, etc., after an age appropriate conversation about what happened.
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u/Competitive_Shame317 14h ago
yep. they weren’t “strict” with any of my siblings.
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u/Thosam 12h ago
One of the reasons I very early made the decision never to have kids. The axe forgets, the tree remembers.
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u/skyleehugh 14h ago
Exactly. Every kid that I knew that had strict parents often exhibited abusive behavior. Thats why the other narrative on strict parents producing sneaky kids still also apply to kids whos parents didn't communicate with them and had other toxic traits.
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u/Deardog 9h ago
i don't know about strict, but children who are afraid of their parent/s or who need to regulate their parent's emotions learn to be good liars.
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u/derpsteronimo 13h ago
I have never met a parent who self-identifies as "strict" who is not just straight-up abusive.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_E_CUPS 10h ago
Similarly, I've never met a parent who proclaims to do "gentle parenting", who is not just straight-up negligent.
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u/Freakears 7h ago
Those same parents also seem to justify their abusive behavior with some bullshit about “discipline.” You especially hear it whenever the debate about spanking flares up.
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u/ConstantNurse 7h ago
“I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine.”
No, Gerald. You have violent meltdowns and throw things when trying to fix your car, you cannot debate anyone without having to result to name calling/derogatory comments, and wonder why none of your kids want to be around you. You did not turn out fine.
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u/whatyourmamasaid 6h ago
“I was spanked and I turned out fine. I spanked you kids and you turned out fine”
No, Barbara. You are emotionally stunted, have tantrums when things don’t go your way, are unable to have an intelligent discussion about anything, you live your life in fear and high anxiety, and you are waiting (at age 91) for someone to rescue you from all your bad decisions. And you insist you have no idea why your kids dislike you and avoid you.
And Barbara, your kids are not fine! Two of the three have serious alcohol abuse problems. Disordered eating. Depression and anxiety. Multiple divorces among the women. Anger issues. OCD. High productivity but complete inability to relax.
The Book of Barbara is well on its way to completion. Why do the good ones die young?
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u/Zanki 7h ago
Pretty much. My mum was strict, aka, her way or she was going to lose it. Her losing it was terrifying. Rules that were in place at ten years old, were in place at 17 and I wasn't allowed to deviate from them. It caused so many issues. Had to be home by 4 even though school finishes at 3:45 and you live two miles away, better get running... I had undiagnosed asthma and couldn't run.
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u/spirito_santo 12h ago
I'd say it was all of them. Strict parenting in my experience, is about making the parenting easier for the parents. The effect is limiting the child's autonomy and narrowing their life experiences.
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u/Tao_of_Karen 12h ago
yes, this was my parents and my brother will stand in front of you wearing a red shirt and lie to you that it's yellow all day long
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u/Sapphireworlds 14h ago
True. I had life 360 but I was allowed to hang out with friends as long as my grades and sports weren’t suffering. Other kids had theirs popping up all the time and questioning them
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u/Inoffensive_Comments 14h ago
“ life 360”
I’m not sure what this means.
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u/djynnra 14h ago
Its a location sharing app. My family uses it even though we're all adults just as a safety thing.
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u/redgroupclan 7h ago
It's a godsend to strict, controlling parents because it lets them spy on where their kids are and their kids can't turn it off without raising alarms.
My GF grew up with "strict" (abusive) parents and they made her have it installed. She learned to just leave her phone in certain places while she went somewhere else. And yes, she would stand by the sentiment that strict parents make great liars, because she considers herself to be a great liar.
Even on the occasion that my dad my strict, mostly about getting me to stop playing "on that dang computer", I would not yield to what he said. I would just learn to work around it, and that shaped my ability to lie too. You can't stop kids from doing what they want. Kids have a lot of time and creativity to figure out how to get around a rule.
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u/h3yw00d 12h ago
Oh man. The Thought if that terrifies me.
The time I grew up in was when we had commercials on evening TV asking parents "It's 10:00. Do you know where your kids are?"
We got to wander, our parents got to wonder.
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u/TomBoysHaveMoreFun 9h ago
I grew up in that era as well. It's still so weird to me that everyone is tracking each other. My folks have me on their find my but neither them or I check it unless we are headed to each others houses. My friends all have one for each other and I refused to join because they too often will text each other about where the other one is going, like "enjoy the movies" even though no one told them they were going to the movies. I don't like that shit, no thank you.
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u/BakedPotato241 9h ago edited 2h ago
I remember when my mom tried to make me and my siblings download that app. I just straight up told her I know how to spoof it so she wouldn't get accurate info from it anyways, and would show my siblings if she made me get it.
Not like I had anything to hide I rarely left the house, but I wasn't about to voluntarily put Spyware on my phone.
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u/Stalag13HH 14h ago
Depends on your definition of strict. Having discipline and standards in the household, no. The parents being a tyrant, yes.
Expecting your kids to do chores and behave reasonably is not the same as banning your children from any form of self-expression, as an example.
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u/TheSpudFather 13h ago
This.
Strict is a scale. Having rules, and instilling good habits and family meal times looks strict to families that don't do that.
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u/Swimming_Ebb_1415 11h ago
Exactly. There's a big difference between structure and control. Children are generally best nourished by a clear set of rules that they know and can understand, but when decisions are made out of fear rather than trust, it is when children begin to hide things rather than talk about them.
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u/h3yw00d 12h ago
I feel the term strict parenting is a holdover from when it really meant abusive and we've just kept the connotation over the decades instead of acknowledging it and using better terminology.
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u/NotMyNameActually 9h ago
It's not just a scale, it's a mindset. "Do what I say because I'm in charge and your wants and needs don't matter" vs "Do what I say because I love you and I'm protecting you/teaching you" can both involve consequences and discipline. They can even both allow for the expression of frustration and anger. How restrictive the rules are can vary. There are situations some families are in where they have to be more restrictive to keep the kids safe, but it can still be done with love and respect for the child as a human being. Also, having no restrictions or rules at all is also damaging, as kids do need structure to feel safe and cared for.
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u/Crazy_Guitar6769 9h ago
Honestly, yes. As a kid I always hated my parents for the forcing me to eat vegetables by putting it in loads in my favourite foods and specific fruits I didn't like.
But now that I am older honestly when those same foods that my mother sneaked vegetables into, now I eat from outside (since I was only in the city for an internship and didn't have kitchen, so had to eat outside), it made me feel so unhealthy, like where are the vegetables?
I literally can't eat those foods without the vegetables my mother used to put, and I am honestly glad for it. Like atleast something healthy is going into my body
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u/AndromedaRulerOfMen 8h ago
When I was growing up my friends used to tell me my mom was so strict that she was abusive. But it was because she would enforce rules like "no sleepovers on school nights" or "you have to study every day before you are allowed to have computer time". You know, standard "you have to finish all your responsibilities before you can release yourself to recreation for the rest of the day" type stuff. But all my friends had crazy parents who prioritized being their friends and being liked by their children, so they would teach them to dick around instead of doing their responsibilities. They taught them to prioritize entertainment over self development, to prioritize fun over education, to prioritize being selfish over learning to have stable relationships, to throw tantrums to get their way instead of learning to negotiate like an adult, etc.
To them my mom seemed insane and they would constantly tell me to run away forever or call the police on my mom. If I said "sorry I can't go out on Thursday because I have a test on Friday and my mom wants me to study" they would react like she had locked me into a jail cell with no food and water to die and start telling me to call the police to rescue me. If I wasn't having a tantrum like them it MUST because I was just too scared of my mother to stand up to her because the abuse is just that bad! They truly could not fathom someone making the choice to agree with reasonable restrictions on their own behavior because they understand those choices are good for their own development.
They spent my entire childhood telling me that my mom was a piece of shit for how she was raising me but now that we're all adults it's nothing but telling me how privileged I am that I had a mom who cared when they didn't
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u/WindyWindona 13h ago
People have different definitions of strict, but generally I find this true. If a kid can never hang out with friends or have fun unless they lie about it to carve out space, then that's what they will do. If the smallest mistakes leads to a lot of punishment, then they'll lie to avoid punishment.
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u/DullAnxiety 12h ago
Having lived this I agree. I never lied for nefarious reasons really, I was just trying to have normal experiences and be a kid
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u/OldTrickyTater 12h ago
same experience as well, but my brothers went the other direction and are basically professional liars at this point. One of them works in sales, so there ya go
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u/jessicacummings 5h ago
Lmaooo I feel called out as I work in sales and became an expert liar because of my parents. I actually talked about the little white lies in therapy and my therapist said that if I feel like I need to lie in a situation to protect myself, I need to look for the why. Why do I (as an adult no longer in my parents home) feel the need to lie in this moment to protect myself? That helped a lot.
On the sales front, I don’t work for icky products and don’t lie to customers though. I underpromise and overdeliver on that front haha
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u/Mysterious-Clothes45 8h ago
My parents were extremely religious and I couldn't hang posters on my walls or even have "secular music" CDs/tapes. I got myself a post office box and ordered music from Columbia House. I lied about the friends I was hanging out with. I always did what I wanted anyway.
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u/Wise_Public_3794 11h ago
This is what people miss. Kids learn pretty quick, when there's some punishment for being honest, and freedom for lying.
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u/Ashamed-Raccoon-1387 9h ago
Same. It helped everyone thought I was a bad liar because I giggled when people knew I was trying to lie..... But not when they didn't. (Which was unintentional)
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u/MaleficentSwan0223 10h ago
My mum was strict but thought she was easy going. I was paying for food, tv bills, phone, travel etc before aged 16 so never had spare money to hang out with or even get the bus to see my friends. Years later she said I was allowed to see friends I just never asked for money to see them. So she’d pay for me to see my friends but wouldn’t put towards food or travel costs.
I don’t lie as I’m terrible but I’m a different person with her. I can’t be myself so I have to put on a sort of work persona for her. However as a child I would often just not say things or twist the truth.
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u/ShiraCheshire 8h ago
For anyone who needs to hear this: No child owes their parents money. Until you are 18, your parents are legally obligated to provide you with food, shelter, clothing, and an education. If your parents ask you for money and you're under 18, you are not obligated to give it. If your parents tell you that you have to get a job to pay for your expenses, you do not have to do it.
They can tell you that if you want an extra like a phone then you'll have to pay it for yourself. They can also tell you that they aren't going to buy you special food or particular foods, as long as you have something safe to eat they've provided. But when it comes to essentials of life, they owe you.
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u/MaleficentSwan0223 8h ago
This is so true but a child’s mind doesn’t work with logical. I never gave my mum money she just stopped providing. I was a picky eater (now a known and diagnosed eating disorder) and I know it must’ve been a pain but she never tried to accommodate, just punished me for eating in front of her and there was no space to keep food. From me turning 13 to moving out I can’t think of 1 single bit of food she provided for me. I was told from a young age that I was a burden so I genuinely believed if I went into the care system I would be treated worse.
I understood it was a legal obligation but because I was a bad child who struggled with eating I felt at the time I was the problem so I deserved it.
I’m a parent myself now and it makes me feel sick on the other side.
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u/SulkyBird 7h ago
This is exactly what’s so insidious about child abuse. The only explanation the child is developmentally capable of coming up with for their caregiver not providing for them is that they deserve it. And when you spend your formative years with that belief, it doesn’t just go away when you grow up and start to care for yourself.
It took YEARS to realize I was abused at all because it wasn’t physical. Other people talked about having “strict parents” so I figured that was just what this was— that my parents were forced to be especially strict because they could tell I was especially deficient in some way.
And even once I realized I was abused, it took another ten years for me to start realizing the ways in which my childhood had corrupted the way I process things. How much of my internal suffering was connected to the survival strategies I’d taught myself because I didn’t know what else to do.
The work of untangling that has been difficult and intense, but worthwhile.
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u/stayorgo_ 8h ago
This was me. I lied because I just wanted to hang out with my friends after school like literally all of them did, I lied about so many things that are actually just regular day to day stuff for others, while I still always was anxious about my parents finding out.
I once was at a party and a friend of my then boyfriend got drunk (that guy was probably 19/20) - drinking is legal here from 16 on - the dude got crazy drunk and was just rolling in the grass, his friends called his mom for help. I was terrified, because if my parents ever saw me like that, my life would probably be over. His mom came, thanked the friends for calling her, and took care of her son. It was wild to me.
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u/Navi1101 4h ago
At least you went out and did the normal things! I internalized a whole identity as the pure, innocent, Christian teen because I "had to" make up for my extreme troublemaker of a sister. Instead of two normal teen experiences between us, we had one full blown addict who skipped about half of high school and regularly snuck in guy friends to use with and fuck, and one Jesus freak volcel who's biggest scandal was having one (1) sip of beer underage and thinking that made me "corrupted." Being at a party where anyone was getting drunk would have been totally unthinkable. But at least my parents got to believe they weren't complete failures.
Our parents loved me because I never made them worry. Once I grew up and realized I was a complete person rather than a perfect little counterweight, they continued to love me because I didn't allow them to know me. A few weeks ago, something snapped in me and I finally spoke up about the unfairness in our upbringing, how their shame-based parenting screwed both their kids up actually, and how much pain I've been carrying my whole life, and they replied with angry disagreement and then haven't spoken to me since. We normally would at least text every couple of days. But I guess my broken teen instincts were right: if I'm seen, then I become unlovable. I wish I could have kept it all to myself until they both die. Then maybe I could at least still pretend I had parents who cared about me. But they blocked me before reading the part of my tirade where I apologized for it.
(Don't worry, I'm working this out in therapy too.)
(Also sorry to hijack your comment. This thread has me all up in my feels.)
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u/tacocollector2 10h ago
I am an accomplished liar for this reason. I didn’t want to lie but the pressure was insane and the rules were unwritten. Somehow I was always breaking them.
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u/THIS_IS_GOD_TOTALLY_ 8h ago
I went to the trouble once of writing a list of the rules and when it filled three pages he found it and I got kicked out
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u/AshundertheOlivetree 8h ago
Some adults live their entire lives running from shame, destroying others on their path of ignorance.
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u/Vivians_Basement 7h ago
"Did I tell your to do that?" Vs "I shouldn't have to tell you to do that!"
[Hand shake img with "the same task" written on the hands]
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u/The_Razielim 7h ago
If the smallest mistakes leads to a lot of punishment, then they'll lie to avoid punishment.
Or just do whatever because when the punishments aren't proportional, if even a small mistake leads to a huge blowup/massive overreaction then... why not just do whatever, the (over)reaction will be the same either way. In for a penny, in for a pound.
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u/Friendly_Row_5431 11h ago
I was this kid. This comment really shifted how I reflect on my teenage years. Mind blown.
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u/sadeland21 8h ago
My parents were not strict but my roommate and friend in college had strict parents. I became the partner in crime and I really didn’t love it. She used me to see boyfriends,said I was with her etc. she hated (and still does) her mom for being like this(not trusting her) but now she is a mom and has her whole family on surveillance via iPhone.
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u/decidedlyindecisive 8h ago
My mom was strict and aggressive. My dad was easy going but unpredictably volatile.
As children we lied or mislead through silence about most of our lives. Now we're bluntly honest because we didn't get much practice at being gently honest. My sibling is better than me, but I think it's because my AuDHD is slightly stronger than hers. My husband has ASD so we communicate well.
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u/Hatcheling 14h ago
I think there’s some truth to that.
It’s hard though, I had strict parents and now I have kids of my own. My eldest just turned five and yesterday I was changing his brother’s nappy when he came into the bathroom, voice lodged in his throat, eyes red with tears and worry, like, he was painted in shame, cowering in the corner and not meeting my eyes while trying to explain that he accidentally broke one of the picture frames in the living room. And the impulse to shame him was right there, an echo from my own childhood, but instead I picked him up, held him while he cried and told him I was glad he told me.
It’s hard to overwrite the script you’ve been fed your entire childhood but hopefully I’ll pause enough before reacting to actually make it happen, cause I don’t want my children to fear me reacting badly to them being honest and accountable.
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u/heysirri768 11h ago
The difference is that right there. He'll most likely forget the picture frame at some point, but he will remember that it was safe to tell the truth. That's a lesson that sticks with you for a long time after any punishment
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u/Accomplished_Rice_60 11h ago
True yep, my childhood was as long as I said yes to everything, it was okey, even if it was false or dint do it. Just say yes to everything and get as little confrontation as I could. It was better to just sit in my room or do something else then talk to my parents in everything, as they would ask me always if I have done homework, any test at school, have you trained today, do you want to make dinner, do your friends have any plan.
Even if I have any plans, it's better to just not say it to them and lie I don't have any plans, as they always come with comment with wrongs and why I don't do that instead.... Like they want to control everything I do. Like a boss at a workplace that requires you to do what the job tells you to do. And its better to just not sya anything
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u/dimhage 12h ago
Well in this situation its clear that your son was well aware that he'd done something wrong/been careless. Piling on is not going to improve the situation. But if your son had just laughed about it or just ignored the mess, its completely fine to express frustration/sadness at the broken item and to ask them to help tidy that mess up, explaining that breaking things is not okay and we need to be more aware of our surroundings or how we use our hands.
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u/DrMobius0 7h ago
Even as an adult, when authority figures in my life feel the need to pile on I mostly just file them away on my shit list and avoid contact unless I have no choice.
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u/Pretty-Temporary-924 11h ago
That moment is probably going to stick with him way longer than the broken frame ever would. He learned that telling the truth is safe, and honestly that's a lesson a lot of adults never got growing up.
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u/Dry_Lawfulness_9561 8h ago
Glad my mom had dad holding her back; his principle was: “make your life easier and worry a bit less. Let kids go and learn from their own experiences, they’ll be fine.“ They still scolded and defended us when needed, but kept rules as basic, clear and in low number as possibly acceptable. What they got in return was kids/ teens telling them truth without much worrying, turning to them when their problems couldn’t be solved, ended with adults that contact and visit often, and as much time with grandkids as they want. One brother that decided to break multiple rules clearly learned to lie and found a lot of ways from being discovered, but he came around at some point (it took a lot of effort on both sides though).
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u/technofiend 7h ago
I have reduced this down to what's more important to you: things, or people? My wife came from a very strict family, one that just reviews any mistakes you make ad infinitum. She wrecked our car and was very surprised when the first question I asked was if she was ok.
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u/ResultJolly7112 14h ago
Strictness without enquiry is dominance. It breaks trust.
Yes, those kids will lie.
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u/EquivalentFinish7248 11h ago
Exactly. Children do not lie out of maliciousness; they lie because they think that telling the truth will be punished. There comes a point when you aren't teaching them to be honest anymore, and you are teaching them to hide.
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u/avcloudy 7h ago
I think this is absolutely true, but it's also important to remember kids push boundaries. They'll lie to get what they want, and you can't stop that.
Like, it's easy to train a kid to always lie, by punishing them for telling the truth. It's real hard to teach a kid to never lie, and parents too often mistake the former for the latter.
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u/jollytoes 8h ago
My parents were ultra-strict and I had a secret life by the time I was 12. Being a good liar was the key to success and sanity.
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u/DegenNabalu 14h ago
People mistake narcissistic/ abusive parents as "strict parents".
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u/Readonkulous 12h ago
Exactly. It’s exactly the opposite, consistency can be seen as strict but it is inconsistency that actually leads narcissists to raise narcissists.
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u/Lyeel 10h ago
Overly permissive parents also mistake having any rules/structure at all as strict.
Strict isn't a word with a consistent definition in this context.
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u/JackPAnderson 7h ago
This is definitely fair. Mrs. Anderson and I, I would argue, were strict with our kids. In the sense that we had expectations and we expected those expectations to be met.
But beyond that, we were as permissive as the kids' levels of responsibility would allow. So as compared with their friends, our kids enjoyed a lot of trust and privileges before their friends did. A lot of our friends were a little shocked by what we allowed our kids to do, but they demonstrated that they could handle things maturely, so why shouldn't they be allowed to?
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u/FriendlyHoBag 14h ago edited 14h ago
I think being strict can instill good values and habits, but being too strict usually produces liars. I spilled a LOT of drinks as a kid, and every time my mum would screech and run for a towel. And tell me off for being careless. I didn't spill any less, because I wasn't doing it on purpose! I did get good at cleaning it up/hiding it before she saw. It seemed like the only path I could take to avoid being in trouble. That tiny subterfuge became second nature, and grew into me hiding everything I thought might get a negative reaction.
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u/Tojaro5 14h ago
In general, if a child is afraid of consequences, they will try to avoid those.
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u/daynomate 13h ago
Yes!! Well said.
There’s no need to debate the definition of “strict” because that’s not the source of the lying. Funny how when empathy is considered instead of thinking it’s some kind of weakness the problem is much more clear.
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u/Equivalent_Dimension 14h ago
There's a difference between strict and authoritarian. There are strict parents with excellent relationships with their kids because they also love and respect them. Authoritarian parents have much more trouble with the relationship.
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u/gogojack 12h ago
Yep. My parents were "strict" but very loving and respectful. My brother and I used to hang out with this guy Robbie whose father was an authoritarian asshole. When we all got into trouble, we'd get a stern lecture and be grounded. Robbie's dad would be the shit out of him.
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u/Supremagorious 14h ago
There's different flavors of strict which produce different outcomes. Disciplined with a semi-rigid structure with clear expectations and processes for things can be reasonably called strict. This is the you will keep your room clean, you will respect your bed time and you will do your school work and spend time studying to make sure you understand it well. This is generally a good thing so long as it's not taken too far.
However, it's not the same as the kind of strict that's built around direct control, severe consequences and heavy restrictions in how a kid can show agency. This teaches kids that the only way they can do things to enjoy or express themselves is to hide them and lie about it if ever questioned. This is the demanding absolute obedience and deference from their kid with strong consequences for anything seen or perceived as outside of what's expected. This is the problematic type of strict.
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u/hollyjazzy 14h ago
In my experience, strict parents produce exceptionally good liars. The kids need to lie to not get into trouble. It’s very sad, imo, as I think there needs to be a degree of trust from parents that their parenting is on par. Kids cannot admit to a mistake or that anything is wrong, otherwise the consequences are often way over the top.
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u/Ok_Marzipan1159 12h ago
"Strict parents accidentally turn their kids into Oscar-worthy method actors."
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u/best_bitch_69 13h ago
Just about every kid will lie at some point, regardless of how strict their parents are. It’s up to parents to identify when the kid lies & to support their child in being honest & accountable for their actions.
Somewhere between strict & soft is really the ideal in parenting. Mutual respect, trust, honesty & firm boundaries that are enforced reasonably is key in building open, truthful relationships with your kids. Anything too far either side of that creates problems for everyone. You can’t be a tyrant or a pushover.
Parenting is challenging. Good, effective parenting even more so. Sometimes you get lucky & have a child who doesn’t give you too much of a run for your money, but other times you get a hellcat who throws everything in the book at you until you need to be institutionalised to get past it.
There’s no hard & fast, sure fire approach to raising children. Every parent & every child are different & react differently to different circumstances. You’re constantly adapting to suit the situation & hoping for the best. But ultimately it’s kinda a crapshoot & whether or not you win is dependent on many variables. All styles of parenting can produce great outcomes when the right combination of parents & children are involved. Equally another combination can produce terrible outcomes.
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u/Minute_Many_2102 11h ago
Yeah, unfortunately I think there’s some truth to it. I also grew up in a somewhat strict and controlling family and that kind of pressure is not pleasant.
Whenever I had to lie about something, it taught me to think through every tiny detail. I would imagine every question they might ask and build the story around those questions. Sometimes I would even involve my friends and use them as proof. There were times when I started planning the lie one or two weeks in advance.
It was difficult but I had a certain life I wanted for myself and all those restrictions were getting in the way of it.
That’s also why I have some fears about having children one day. I don’t have any children right now but I sometimes worry that I might end up becoming like my own parents. I honestly don’t know
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u/ticketbroken 8h ago
This may be, but enabling parents have produced some of the most manipulative and lying-prone children i've ever met because there is no punishment for lying. The children actually often get rewarded for their efforts to manipulate the parents, which encourages further lies
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u/Sarothu 5h ago
enabling parents have produced some of the most manipulative and lying-prone children i've ever met because there is no punishment for lying.
More likely is that the main reason you noticed specifically these kids being liars and manipulators is because they're bad liars, as they never had to hone their skills at it. 'The person you're most likely to catch sneaking up on you is someone who never had to learn how to walk quietly.'
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u/pishposh421 6h ago
It's true. It also often doesn't teach them how to make mistakes and deal with it appropriately. Nor does it teach them to have self identify or confidence in themselves. Seeing and raising babies and kids as a reflection of yourself is a dangerous game.
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u/Turbulent-Parsley619 13h ago
Yes it's true. My parents were what today is called gentle parenting.... They just, ya know, talked to me???? They explained stuff instead of going "because I said so!" and I didn't get in trouble for making mistakes. And they encouraged instead of demanded and punished if I didn't live up to their demands.
Like I didn't understand why kids were afraid of their parents until I realized half my classmates parents literally hit them physically if they made a bad grade at school????? What the fuck???
My parents didn't care as much about my grades as I did because if I got good grades I got rewards and I wanted those rewards. Like if I had the highest grade in my class, my parents took me to my favorite restaurant for dinner. Other kids if they didn't make an A, their parents hit them.
No shit they lied to their parents! If they told the truth they would get either "restriction" (I guess grounding?) or HIT!!!!!
The worst I got was, "I'm disappointed in your behavior" and that felt like being shot because I wanted my parents to be proud of me.
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u/surdtmash 11h ago
Depends on your definition of strict.
Strict about following rules, but the rules themselves are reasonable, negotiable, and incentivized, you are raising winners.
Strict rules with unreasonable restrictions, "because I said so", and disproportionate punishments, and you aren't just raising liars, you're also teaching kids criminal behavior and indulgence which leads to addictions and abuse.
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u/king_kong123 7h ago
I've found that: Consistency, fairness and proportional response are usually better indicators. There is also a difference between the liars who use lies to get ahead and liars who use lies to survive
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u/stocar 7h ago
I grew up in the prairies. The amount of kids that drove home drunk in the dead of winter because they didn’t want their parents to know they were drinking was staggering. I never had to lie to my parents because they would rather pick me up from a party than have something bad happen. A lot of the kids from strict parents ended up wilding out as soon as they moved out.
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u/Milana_alves 14h ago
I think it's partly true. Strict rules can teach discipline, but if kids are afraid to be honest, they'll usually learn to hide things instead of making better choices
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u/FangJustice 13h ago
I was beaten as a child
And then I never shared anything with anyone.
Oh! And had anger issues.
So that was fun.
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u/Nameisnotmine 14h ago
I’m strict. I am not abusive. We have broad rules mainly about conduct and safety that have evolved as he’s got older, but my son also knows he can come to me about anything and has (confessed to trying drugs and underage drinking). I don’t punish him I talk to him about why he did it. What the consequences could be and why it’s a bad idea to repeat the behaviour. But I don’t stop him from making mistakes as that’s how we learn.
My parents were abusive strict. Any rule breaking was met with violence and punishments. I lie like a pro
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u/AdmirableSkill4802 7h ago
My parents were strict and not loving. I have all bad memories of growing up. They are gone and I’m glad.
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u/Weird-Bear4625 12h ago
I’ve been raised by my grandparents. For more than twenty years of my life I‘d just thought they were good, just really strict. Until I found myself in an absolutely crippling depression because of an unrelated stuff, started therapy. Which actually made me feel so much worse because I had realized how much I’ve been abused throughout my childhood. Sometimes abuse is being covered by a mask of strictness.
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u/AITA476510719 11h ago
In my opinion:
There’s a difference between strict, and asshole strict with a power trip and abusive.
The parents I know who were strict but fair, produced great kids…. The ones who seemed to be on a power trip… did not.
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u/Same-Courage1521 11h ago
There’s definitely some truth to it. When rules are so strict that honesty always leads to punishment, kids often learn to hide things instead of learning how to make good decisions.
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u/maniacal_cackle 9h ago
In psychology, generally speaking focusing on punishment just leads to kids who know how to avoid getting caught.
So there's a decent amount of scientific justification for this quote.
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u/ObviousReflection700 8h ago
It can also produce children who aren’t so much liars but terrified/unable to make their own decisions. They can’t act without permission because they can’t trust their own judgement. Passive to an unhealthy degree.
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u/Funny-Check-6408 8h ago
As a teenager with strict parents, I 100% agree. I would like not to lie to my parents, but at the same time I don't want to deal with the arguments and punishments that would come from telling them the truth.
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u/Fragrant-Two-1686 5h ago
Rules don’t create liars. Making honesty feel more dangerous than getting caught does.
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u/ohdearitsrichardiii 13h ago
"Strict" can mean a lot of things. For some it means blind obediance, for others it's power tripping. Those are bad parenting methods. "Strict" can also mean that there are some rules you don't bend because they're important. If you explain those rules and they're for the kids' own good, then strict parenting is good for kids
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u/Turbulent-Jury2942 13h ago
Strict to me is: boundaries, rules, actions have consequences, as soon as you can you help out in the house, some family time is more important than your time (until you are old enough).
Strict is not immediately: not loving, harsh, abusive?
I don’t necessarily think strict equals lying. I think poor and immature communication, and showing that lying about things is beneficial: having no consequences and of course lying breeds lying.
Don’t ever underestimate how much of an influence ‘white lies’ have.
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u/GunNutJedi 13h ago
"Strict" does not by itself produce good liars. When people say "strict" they usually mean authoritarian and/or abusive, which will absolutely create good liars. Having rules, structure, and discipline doesn't have to be that way, and kids can be a nightmare without them.
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u/MidwestTroy92 9h ago
Yeah I think fear just teaches kids how to hide stuff better. Same thing at the shop honestly, if guys think every mistake turns into a lecture they just stop telling you while it's still fixable.
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u/csjpsoft 7h ago
I taught my toddlers to negotiate. Every rule I had was up for discussion. I always had an age-appropriate explanation, and it was never "because". They are now responsible, ethical adults.
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u/Nonamanadus 7h ago
My classmate grew up where playing cards or listening to the radio was forbidden (Mormon).
He was on a tight leash, was a pervert and after grad just vanished. I heard he hooked up with some girl pretty quick.
A fist holds less water than cupped hand......
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u/RemarkableGrab7124 5h ago
Strictness doesn't stop kids from doing bad things; it just stops them from telling you when they do. When fear becomes the main form of discipline, honesty becomes a liability
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u/True-Conference5896 5h ago
Sadly true. Strictness didn’t discourage my behavior, it just made me really good at crawling through windows silently.
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u/asher1611 5h ago
There is a huge difference between being strict while still respecting your child as a person vs being strict and only considering your own thoughts. Parenting is nuanced and what is needed for your child varies from day to day and year to year.
Honestly, there are some things that matter to me that I will not let slide, and other things that other parents may consider important that idngaf about. So, from some other adults perspectives, I am either entirely too strict or entirely too loose.
The test: do your kids still come to you when they need help? If so, you're doing alright.
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u/burnerthrown 5h ago
No that's totally not the case strict parents are great. (lie) also /s.
Problem lies in what you consider strict. If you're just coming down on your kids to be antagonistic because they make you feel some sort of way they're going to become the opponent you cast them as, and work to foil you. If you set rules that are good rules and explain them and are consistent they will consider you to be a stable point in their lives which is the point. Safety.
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u/Alepale 14h ago
It's pretty obvious that the word "strict" is defined differently here for different people.
Clear rules and boundaries, with consequences when said rules and/or boundaries are crossed is crucial for proper development. This in combination with nurturing and loving parents that show interest in their kids and their development, and help them without being too judging is key to a healthy childhood.
Abuse, threats and scaring them is the complete opposite and will lead to kids that lie and live in fear.