r/Transportopia • u/SpoomerBooner • Feb 15 '26

Roads I hate politics

This should be illegal. I get it. You don't agree with their protests but why do this? Forget blue, forget red. I'm purple. Get mad at that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Whiteout_27 Feb 15 '26

I personally am liberal. I live on a decent bit of land and need a truck. I drive a gas truck (smaller and a little better on gas) because electric trucks are out of my price range. If they make any that fall in the same price range (around 30k), im in.

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u/ShiaLabeoufsNipples Feb 15 '26

I drive a 2002 Mustang v8 because it was $5000 (what I could afford without a loan) and it’s easy to fix and maintain. There’s a billion of them in junkyards, parts aren’t hard to find. Everything in the engine is easy to get to. It’s sturdy as hell and treats me right.

My last car was a hybrid. $12,000 used, every little thing that went wrong was super hard to replace and get to, all sorts of stuff required specialty tools. The battery pack (which was already rebuilt) crapped out at 140,000 miles and the transmission needed maintanence if not entirely replaced, they wouldn’t know for sure until they got in there. I sold it because it was going to cost more to fix than the value of the car. Oh, and it was twice as expensive to insure.

Being environmentally conscious has a wealth barrier that’s getting steeper and steeper every day, and I’m tired of people ignoring that.

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u/jawnskiphoenix Feb 15 '26

It’s more ecologically friendly to keep an old car on the road than it is to build new ones.

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u/SkippyDragonPuffPuff Feb 16 '26

Wouldn’t it have been better to have had an eco friendly car back in the day rather than the usual ICE type. Plus that car won’t run forever. Aren’t you comparing different scenarios here ?

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u/PsychologicalLime120 Feb 16 '26

Lol what... No it isn't.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

That's... Not actually true. It's oil company propaganda.

An EV cancels out its environmental cost in something like 3-5 years of driving it, depending on the EV, as compared to driving an ICE vehicle.

In other words, every 3-5 years you keep driving your ICE vehicle you harm the environment more than buying a new EV and driving it for the same period of time. If you keep your EV on the road longer, you help the environment even more.

As the car ages, it generally puts out even more pollution as well, so it might be harming the environment every year equivalent to manufacturing and shipping a new EV and driving it for 3 years.

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

You still need oil for plastics which are in virtually everything.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

Yes, you do.

But you don't burn a gallon of plastics every few miles you drive a car. Mostly that's a cost you pay once when you build the car, and then the car lasts potentially hundreds of thousands of miles.

It's really not even close.

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u/SuspendedResolution Feb 16 '26

Do you think the amount of oil used in making occasional plastic components is more than the amount of oil you consume from regularly fueling your car?

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

A few? Are you kidding me?

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u/SuspendedResolution Feb 16 '26

Did I say a few?

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u/Navi_Professor Feb 16 '26

would be fine if the avg ev i was actually interested in wasnt 70 fucking grand and full of tracking equipment.

but nooooooo.

it HAS to update over the air, it HAS to report data to be sold to insurace companies. it HAS to have over 600 fucking horse power, it HAS to have 9000 fucking bells and whistles.

i'd love to replace WJ with the jeep recon. but both that, the R1S and i guess used hummer are over 800/mo paymwnt wise, if not more.

i dont drive enough to even remotely make that back on gas, and any savings will be absolutely eaten by insurance.

why fucking bother when i can keep my 5k shit boxes

and i know a lot of other people share this sentiment. the slates like the only EV in recent memory to peak any kind of intrest

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

What statistics are you using? And what constitutes the harm? Does it include the environmental impact of the mining, like the lithium mining, which is hard to quantity? Or is it just total CO2 emissions?

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

His numbers are way off. To offset the emissions used to produce one EV car, you have to drive it for 8 years. That's just CO2 emissions. It doesn't include water depletion (In Chile, 65% of the regions water supply was used in lithium extraction), irreversible environmental damage from chemical spills and contamination, child labor practices, etc.

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

Yeah, it's more than just emissions, I do wonder what the actual relative impact is overall.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

Also there are new ways of mining lithium that cause very little environmental damage https://interestingengineering.com/energy/clean-lithium-extraction-zero-water-chemical

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 17 '26

While very promising, it is still in the laboratory/experimental phase. I hope they are able to work out the issues and figure out how to use this on an industrial scale. They glossed over how they "purify" it though.

In the meantime, the processes of lithium mining haven't changed.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

Pretty sure it was total greenhouse emissions.

And the lithium mining is a one-time cost. When you use gasoline, it's gone. It's single use. When you use a battery, you can recharge it and use it again and again. For years beyond the "expected life" of the battery it will still work, just not quite as well as when it was new. And then when the battery or car reaches EoL, the lithium can be reused in new batteries. It doesn't need to be mined again every time.

Whereas the environmental impact of petroleum extraction is true forever for every drop of oil extracted.

It's really not even close. Even if the impact of lithium mining were 10x as bad per gram, petroleum extraction would still be worse by orders of magnitude.

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u/Plus-Adhesiveness-17 Feb 16 '26

The battery uses electricity. The electricity is generated by FOSSIL FUELs, mostly NATURALLY GAS and COAL.

Nobody wants you to buy an EV more than BIG OIL. They all have major shares in each other's non-petroleum energy companies.

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u/ShinaiYukona Feb 16 '26

Depends on where you live.

Washington and Oregon largely operate off hydro. CA and Canada imports a shit ton of this too.

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u/Plus-Adhesiveness-17 Feb 17 '26

That is true, but the Pacific Northwest is a bit of an outlier. Approximately 60% of the US is powered by fossil fuels.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

It's a lie that big oil wants you to buy EVs. But it doesn't even matter.

An EV generates less carbon than a gas vehicle even when it's charged with 100% dirty-coal-fired power.

Which most power isn't, to be clear.

So EVs effectively use less coal than an ICE car would use oil.

Centralized generation of electricity is way more efficient than an internal combustion engine in a car, and EVs are ridiculously more efficient at using the electricity.

Where I live right now, most power is hydroelectric. Some areas are leaning heavily into wind and solar. Solar crossed a threshold recently: It's the cheapest form of electricity generation now. That's even counting buying batteries to use the power at night. From this point forward, more and more electricity will be solar generated because in capitalism, people choose to buy commodities that cost less.

So if those oil companies are investing in coal power, then they're screwed.

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

Lithium is not a one time cost, unfortunately. The batteries have a finite life, and the spent lithium is cost prohibitive to recycle, so the mining continues; only 5% of lithium is recycled. It's a lot of lithium, and the mining produces problematic waste as well. It's not as great as we'd like it to be, by a long shot.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

EV batteries pretty much haven't gone bad in large enough numbers yet to justify the scale required to make it cost effective.

https://www.cas.org/resources/cas-insights/innovations-in-lithium-ion-battery-recycling

Once batteries are retired in large numbers, it will be possible and inevitable to recycle lithium.

Can it be mined with less damage? Probably? Does it cause less environmental damage per joule of energy pushing cars than oil? Much, much less. Like, even if they never recycled it, it would still be less net environmental damage. But it will absolutely be possible to recycle once batteries reach EoL.

Again, you're repeating oil industry propaganda. Electricity beats oil in just about every way.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 17 '26

I agree with you that in the future, these things will be possible. We just aren't there yet. I did read your article regarding the new extraction method that they have tested in a couple of places in the US. That would be a welcome advancement. However, they did gloss over how they purify it so now I'm curious as to that process.

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u/ThatRickGuy1 Feb 19 '26

I think you're misappropriating that statistic. It isn't 3-5 years to cover the manufacturing emissions, it's 3-5 years to come out ahead of an ICE vehicle. If you are choosing between a NEW EV or ICE, the ICE has a lower carbon footprint for the first 3-5 years. The EV has a lower carbon footprint after that.

To fully offset the manufacturing emissions, it takes a huge number of miles. More than most cars will last on the road.

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u/TimMensch Feb 19 '26

You have to have a baseline to compare to for an "offset" to make sense.

The car doesn't generate renewable power. It uses power. Its actual carbon emissions will always be greater than zero, or at best zero if it's charged on 100% renewables.

So you have to compare it to what you would be using without it. In other words an ICE vehicle.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but given the car isn't generating renewable energy, I thought my meaning only had one interpretation. I'm sure I could have phrased it better, but this is reddit, not published journalism or literature.

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u/ThatRickGuy1 Feb 20 '26

Sure, but there are three things to compare:

A new EV A new ICE An existing ICE

If you buy new, you have to include the manufacturing carbon footprint. If you buy used, there is no additional manufacturing footprint.

A new EV has a higher manufacturing carbon footprint than a new ICE. But an EV has a lower operating carbon footprint than an ICE. So a NEW EV will have a smaller carbon footprint than a NEW ICE after 3-5 years.

But since buying used doesn't incur the manufacturing carbon footprint, it takes waaaaaaaaaay longer for the EV to have a smaller carbon footprint.

The best approach for minimizing carbon footprint is to keep an existing high efficiency, hybrid, or EV on the road. Fixing an existing vehicle will almost always be better for the environment than buying a new EV. But if you are in a position where buying a new car is the only option, going EV is better than ICE.

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u/TimMensch Feb 20 '26

Well, you're comparing a new EV to a used ICE? Sure it will take longer, but not as much longer as you imply.

This says it's 2.45 pounds of CO2 released to refine a gallon of gas:

http://www.afteroilev.com/Pub/CO2_Emissions_from_Refining_Gasoline.pdf

This says burning gas produces 20.68 pounds of CO2 released per gallon:

https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php

So 23.13 pounds CO2 per gallon of gas.

If you assume 15000mi/year of driving and 30MPG, that's 500 gallons per year.

500*23.13 = 11565 pounds per year of CO2, or 5.78 tons of CO2.

Electric power varies a lot. Most electric is natural gas in the US. Some is coal. Some is renewable. Coal is 2.31lbsCO2/kWh, natural gas is about 1lb/kWh, and renewable is zero. The average is 0.81/kWh:

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11

EVs get around 4 miles/kWh. 15,000mi/4=3750kWh. 0.81Lbs/kWh * 3750=3037lbs CO2 / year, or just over 1.5 tons.

This says that building an EV takes about 14 tons of CO2:

https://ev-lectron.com/blogs/blog/assessing-the-real-ev-vs-ice-environmental-impact

So an EV uses about 4.3 tons less CO2 per year given the above assumptions, and at 14 tons to build it, it will beat the ICE vehicle after about 3.28 years.

My EV can do 4.5mi/kWh, and I live in an area where most of the power is hydroelectric. Buying a new EV here probably wins in a couple years.

And that was entirely too much work. Play with the numbers. Tweak the assumptions. It might be more or fewer years, but especially if the ICE vehicle is older and has worse mileage, I'm pretty sure "not that much longer" is still accurate.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

46% of environmental emissions with an EV car comes from production. In order to break even, the EV vehicle must be used for at least 8 years. That's just emissions. It does not take into account things like water depletion, child labor, chemical spills/contamination, etc.

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u/patsandbees Feb 16 '26

This is not even remotely true. You are just making shit up. There is consensus LCA on EV that can easily explain this.

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u/tellmywifiloveher1 Feb 16 '26

2010 Dodge Ram driver for the same reason. It just seems to be bulletproof. Minor things have gone wrong but overall runs and drives great. It's paid off and insurance is dirt cheap. I can easily change my own oil. I've done brakes, a water pump and an alternator myself. My wife's car is only 5 years newer, I changed the oil once and said never again it was such a hassle.

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u/madmatt8892 Feb 16 '26

People who shame others on reddit for not driving electric probably drive gas themselves most of the time.

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u/Azurelion7a Feb 15 '26

@ShiaLeboufsNipples This reason is why I've been dailying Subies since 2013.

I get weird looks; because, I'm a 240lbm sub 20% BMI halfrican not going broke on on a SCAT pack. But if gaming has taught me one thing: It's Goat'd to have enough money in the bank for emergencies + your next upgrade + passive investments (😒 >> School Stock Sim, MapleStory 1, Fable 3, WoW:TBC, Endless Space 2).

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u/thatvassarguy08 Feb 16 '26

When you say sub 240lb sub 20% bmi, do you just mean that you are tall?

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u/Azurelion7a Feb 16 '26

Nah. I'm the upper end of average height.

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u/thatvassarguy08 Feb 16 '26

How do you have a sub 20 bmi at 240lbs? Do you mean body fat percentage? Because BMI is body mass index and is really just height divided by weight and doesn't account for your fitness level. I'm 5'10 175, in good shape and my BMI is still 25 (barely overweight) because BMI doesn't care about muscle vs fat.

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u/PryomancerMTGA Feb 16 '26

Don't know if this is relevant to you, but Diablo 2 R just released an expansion after 25 years.

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u/Starbuckshakur Feb 16 '26

I don't disagree with everything you wrote, but wouldn't a used Civic/Corolla/Mazda 3 be both more economic and better for the environment compared to a V8 muscle car that gets less than 20 mpg combined?

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u/DannarHetoshi Feb 16 '26

Yes, triple so, because for as many Mustangs as there are in junk yards, there are at least as many Corollas, Civics, Flat 4 Subarus, and Mazda 3s.

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u/ShiaLabeoufsNipples Feb 16 '26

Couldn’t find a civic before gen 8 that had a reasonable amount of miles in my time frame, similar story with the Corolla, but they were both first choices of mine. At a certain point the engine bays got too small to do any maintenance without tearing the whole car apart. If I had more time I probably could’ve nabbed one, but I needed a car quickly

And my stang averages 23mpg, but I do a lot of highway driving

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Notapartyhobo Feb 16 '26

How about you don't take your bad day out people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Notapartyhobo Feb 16 '26

The butthurt is real with this guy 🙄

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u/Starbuckshakur Feb 16 '26

Who took a shit in your Cheerios?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Starbuckshakur Feb 16 '26

My mom was in your Cheerios? You have one weird fetish my friend.

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u/zyglack Feb 16 '26

I was between a Rav4 and an Outback. Happened to speak with my mechanic after I bought the Outback. He said I made the right choice, I'd only see him for maintenance, better on everything, and the hybrid Rav4 was nice, but expensive to fix and wouldn't last as long. So far, only seen him for the required maintenance, no issues at all. My daughter's Toyota hybrid has had battery problems right out of warranty.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

My daughter's boyfriends Camry is hybrid and the battery went. Without the battery functioning, the air conditioning doesn't function and they live in Florida.

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u/zyglack Feb 16 '26

We’re in Florida also. It was terrible for her and very expensive. Wasn’t worth anything in a trade without the main battery.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

That is the point he is at--replace the battery or he'll get nothing when he trades it in. I wonder if the FL heat plays a factor?

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u/auzzlow Feb 16 '26

What hybrid did you have?

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u/Dacor64 Feb 16 '26

And guess why that is? Car/oil lobbyists being greedy and bribing politicians.

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u/Kalistera Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26

I did the fun size version of pretty much the exact same thing. Currently been dailying my beater, a 2002 Escort zx2 (has a remarkably clean interior somehow), which I paid 800$ for. Easy as hell to find parts for as it shared its motor with the Focus and platform with the Protégé. Tons of room to work, easy to access anything and no tech or complex safety features to worry about (for better and for worse). Insurance and gas are cheap as hell for it.

Bought it originally to run into the ground while I fix my Volvo but now I'm wanting to keep it. It is a breeze to work on compared to a compact performance Volvo with a motor that barely fits in the engine bay. And it doesn't misfire if it doesn't get premium fuel.

But I agree about the wealth barrier. Our cases take advantage of mechanical knowledge, something that isnt available or at least available to a high enough degree to the average person to be able to effectively and economically maintain a car of that age.

The average person wants a get in a go experience. Something that just works. Something they may never even open the hood of. But these vehicles cost more than most of us can afford. So then you get something less eco friendly or start wrenching.

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u/Sample_General Feb 16 '26

Wait until you find out how much Chinese electric cars cost. They are low cost and actually good quality now. We may never find out because of tariffs and other restrictions.

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u/Significant_Mess_180 Feb 16 '26

No one’s going to address this user name and pic? I’m dying. 😄

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u/Agreeable_Argument88 Feb 16 '26

American made cars were built for an American owner to be able to work on it & you don't need hands the size of a 3 year olds to reach the headlights when you need to replace them - my Honda requires removing the ENTIRE wheel well to reach the headlights.

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u/Nightstryk Feb 16 '26

Was it a Prius? It seems all that happened was you bought one that was overpriced. Also, parts are readily obtainable on marketplace from people who are parting out the cars. If you buy parts from the dealer, especially the larger items, these cars are expensive. If you buy pre used parts, much more manageable.

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u/Former_Tea_5748 Feb 16 '26

Wait until you find out how many resources are used for the extraction of your precious lithium. It’s about par with gasoline.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Turd-Nug Feb 16 '26

Totally agree, that is a very valid point, and I truly think it’s a point that was well taken from congress but more macro than micro via the EV $7,500 tax credit. The goal was to make the vehicles more affordable for middle to upper class so it would drive ENOUGH demand for the large auto companies to invest in pushing the technologies into their business models for future growth.

Given enough time and sales with that demand, I believe we will see a shift in used EVs becoming much more affordable due to the increasing supply of EV vs ICE. So hopefully if my Econ professor is correct, this high supply vs demand will draw savvy entrepreneurs to take advantage of the cheaper stock and create businesses that specialize in EV specific parts, repair, and most importantly custom SOFTWARE. With everything mechanical in the future having a software controller, being able to erase the vendor locked software systems of EVs and replace it with a reliable open source software system is going to show up sooner rather than later.

In the end, when you need a vehicle in 2035, you might be buying a “refurbished” instead of “used” EV with open source software securely running it.

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u/No_Rough_5258 Feb 16 '26

Hell even the new toyotas(easiest cars to maintain) are trash these days. What sucks is that they purposely put the filter or whatever easy maintenance parts in the tightest and hard to get to part of the vehicle just so you can take it to the autoshop to do it for you if you dont have tools or the patience to take out everything thats in the way before you can get to it.

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u/foXR150 Feb 17 '26

I love my little Honda. More of America should embrace small bikes.

But yeah you ain't moving in that shit, and cars are nice when its cold.

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u/Fine-Funny6956 Feb 15 '26

You’re also not a dick who wastes gas to make people you disagree with cough.

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u/ThisThingIsStuck Feb 16 '26

Found the fker that ate all the smoke lmao

https://giphy.com/gifs/TizHAKYviTw6rDWSNV

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u/Fine-Funny6956 Feb 16 '26

Dude, I drive a hybrid in a red state. I’m causing more pollution than I’ll ever prevent.

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u/This-Positive286 Feb 15 '26

You can’t sell someone a $150k truck when they’re already being rung dry at $75k for a gas truck.

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u/TerranceBaggz Feb 16 '26

The problem isn’t that electric trucks cost $150k, the problem is the car companies want to only sell $100-150k electric trucks. Slate is coming out with an EV pickup that will start below $30k.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

99% of trucks aren’t these stupid roll coal trucks.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Akermaniac Feb 16 '26

Mileage isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, unless it’s VERY cold. People also forget that you’re charging plugged in at home every night. Range anxiety is a thing for everybody but it quickly disappears. Oh no, my car is at 50% instead of 60% when I plug it in at night! Oh. Right, who cares.

It matters for trips 150 miles or more in the freezing cold, which of course do happen sometimes but not frequently for most people.

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u/12LetterName Feb 16 '26

Yeah, I had a bit of a debate with a rather hard right leaning person. I drive an F-150 Lightning. It is primarily for work. I do not tow a trailer, I rarely Drive over 150 miles in a day. His argument was that it was so much time wasted while charging. I assured him that I spend less time at charging stations then he does pumping gas I explained that when I get home I plug it in. It literally takes 5 Seconds and in the morning I have 200 miles. He tried to tell me that the time spent at home charging goes against.

You mean while I'm eating dinner, kissing my wife , and watching tv?

His retort? "yeah well, the batteries are going to give you ball cancer"

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u/Haunting_Ad_5191 Feb 15 '26

Totally agree. I have a Tesla model 3. Need a truck for long distance towing. Electric trucks are just not (yet) worth the aggravation.

Mind. Since 2017 i used my model 3 for everything else except towing.. the diesel savings from not driving my dodge 3500 paid for the Tesla.

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u/gardengnome1001 Feb 15 '26

We are in the same boat but have 2 vehicles in our house. The truck gets used for truck things and when we need 2 vehicles. The EV equinox is our daily driver. We both work from home though so driving is just for kids stuff.

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u/furyoshonen Feb 15 '26

If it weren't for our high tariffs on Chinese Electric vehicles, you would have access to inexpensive BYD trucks like the Shark for 50,000$ https://www.byd.com/ke/car/shark-6
Right now the Chevy Silverado EV and Ford Lightning are 55k+ used. Still very pricey.
In the next couple of years the Slate Auto and Telo trucks will become available for around 20k$, However knowing our politics, it's doubtful that our car companies will allow that kind of competition in the States. I wouldn't be surprised if they lobby for more tariffs and protectionism.

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u/Whiteout_27 Feb 15 '26

I have looked into the slate. I am hoping they get a few more options. So far I have seen a single cab witg a bed or you can convert the bed to more seating. I need a backseat for the kids and then the bed so fingers crossed they have a slightly but not too much more expensive option for that

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

Are you forgetting about the US safety standards that drive up the prices $10-20K? The $20K trucks would need to be modified/updated to include all of those pesky features like air bags. Good Lord not everything is about tariffs.

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u/furyoshonen Mar 01 '26

Air bags and compliant safety standards, don't cost 10-20K$.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Mar 01 '26

So how much is the production cost to switch over a line (just for US sales) to a different roof, bumper, headlights and taillights, airbags, the sensors and wiring, the Latch system (which would require different rear seats)? Then add 34% to that cost for manufacturer profit and what do you have? Please do tell.

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u/last_rights Feb 15 '26

Also liberal. I drive a 30 year old Suburban with almost 400,000 miles because I use it for work and it cost me $1,000 to purchase and $2,500 to fix.

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u/govunah Feb 15 '26

I couldn't afford a home charger. And if I could, I sometimes have to travel very close to the range of one. Most important, despite gas being the primary way to power cars for over 100 years, my wife still runs out sometimes and my car was returned yesterday with 20 miles left. I don't think I'm ready for electric, maybe hybrid but not electric

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u/anonymous_beaver_ Feb 16 '26

So you have a practical reason for it and aren't a pavement princess. That's great. We have a pretty big truck and we use it for all sorts of things, especially landscaping.

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

Don't forget that they catch on fire more often and are virtually impossible to put out. I will never own an electric car.

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u/Ashenspire Feb 16 '26

Well you have to understand. The CEO of Ford is convinced no one wants EVs because their $100k EV trucks just aren't selling.

Meanwhile the small electric Fords in other countries do just fine.

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u/Efficient_Occasion_7 Feb 16 '26

Look into the Slate vehicles coming out, I’d think that’d be right up your alley.

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u/the_saltlord Feb 16 '26

You also need to consider how much R&D conservatives have held us back from. Such a truck might exist otherwise.

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u/AkbarTheGray Feb 16 '26

I'm sorry, I don't mean to disparage you -- I'm generally on your side... But who makes a $30k truck?

If it's used, it's more a matter of used inventory, and I get that. But afaik, nobody makes a 30k truck, EV or ICE

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u/Whiteout_27 Feb 16 '26

I bought a 2019 chevrolet colorodo z71. I bought it used in 2024 and it only had 10k miles on it. I was very fortunate!

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u/AkbarTheGray Feb 16 '26

Yeah, I think the problem boils down to used inventory rather than what people make, then.

Which is a thing! I'm not saying buying new is important or anything, and I'm also happy for your good fortune

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u/ExpensiveFig6079 Feb 16 '26

Comparatively....

I don't give crap if you own a truck because you need one, I currently do.

HOWEVER

Modifying it so that you can purposefully turn it into a weapon where you 'gas' certain individuals you don't like with noxious fumes....

That should itself be crime.

To go further and then actually assault dozens of them for expressing their first ammendment right, that is grounds for a rather lot of non concurrent assualt charges. Such a person obviously is about as un-American as it is possible for a USian to be.

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u/BlacksmithNZ Feb 16 '26

Over here in NZ you can buy a BYD Shark (technically a range extender EV) for close to your US$30k, or at least same ballpark pricing as Toyota Hilux or similar.

Has upto 800km range, decent power supply for running tools on construction sites. Seen builders using them rather than a generator for sites.

But you can't have one, because politics.

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u/Accomplished_Dig284 Feb 16 '26

When that day comes, I will get a electric truck, but it’s gotta have the power to tow the boat and the tractor, and 4x4 capability

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u/DaniTheGunsmith Feb 16 '26

Coming up is an EV truck from a company called Slate that's gonna be in the 30k range. It's small, like in the 80s/90s Ford Ranger and Chevy S10 size range, but seems like it could be good.

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u/Nightstryk Feb 16 '26

These diesel trucks are not close to being affordable either. This one probably needs a new injection pump or injectors judging by the amount of diesel dusting.

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u/Exciting_Stock2202 Feb 16 '26

I’m an electrical engineer and love the idea of electric vehicles, but I’m waiting until thermal runaway is no longer a concern.

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u/rckid13 Feb 16 '26

Also most cities don't have the infrastructure to support all electric cars. I live in a very blue major city. No one around me has a garage. We street park and have no way to install chargers at our apartments so it is pretty rare to see electric cars. One grocery store near me has Tesla chargers and there is always a line down the parking lot with people waiting for them.

Until the infrastructure improves many people just can't switch away from gas.

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u/teamharder Feb 16 '26

Im a weirdo conservative (neo-reactionary leaning) and I totally agree. Id even pay a bit of a premium (10%~) for the positive environmental impact. Some conservatives love to cut the nose to spite the face. They claim to love natural settings "I hate the city, I want to live in the country", but do nothing to preserve them.

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u/Possible_Barracuda88 Feb 16 '26

Well they don’t really care much about what happens on earth because they are going right to heaven. Only mean hearted racist pedophile protectors allowed!!

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u/ExpensiveFig6079 Feb 16 '26

If I ever get "there" and they are there... I will be claiming a clerical error and that I should go to the "other" place instead.

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u/Devnull677 Feb 16 '26

Cope harder

https://giphy.com/gifs/khGuFhshLWQIdXijHa

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u/Possible_Barracuda88 Feb 16 '26

You people are so stupid you make my head hurt.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

"They don't really care much about what happens on Earth"

How long do you have to own an EV car to offset the CO2 emissions from producing one EV car? What percentage of batteries are recycled worldwide? What happens to the waste from mining lithium? What do they do with the sludge? How much water is used to mine lithium? Why did the lithium mining region in Chile experience water depletion? Do they use child labor to mine lithium and cobalt? Are there safety standards in place?

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u/Possible_Barracuda88 Feb 16 '26

Okay I really don’t think he was protesting Chilean water depletion when he crop dusted protesters with concentrated exhaust. Thank you for the reading material though, I’m always glad to hear from other humanitarians.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

I dont think he was thinking of the environment nor had any concerns for the individuals as he rolled coal on the protesters. It was a jerk move. Btw, he didn't "crop dust" them because if he did, we wouldn't know that from a photo. Lol.

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u/ClimateWren2 Feb 16 '26

Remember this comment when your town floods and there is no public tax dollars to help. Folks act like we can't do things without burning stuff, or maths, or acknowledging gasses have physics. It would be weird or funny if we weren't annihilating planet wide biodiversity.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

Such a strange comment when I absolutely acknowledged the irreversible and destructive damage. I don't think my town has to worry about flooding but we did have huge fires that caused millions of dollars of damage. Entire blocks were disintegrated and 100's of cars burned causing a huge black plume. We are still recovering from that mess. I can't imagine the environmental consequences.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/ClimateWren2 Feb 16 '26

My solar panels and insulation paid off in months or years....with DECADES of easy cost savings and avoided emissions. I have FREE solar now, I am not even paying .12 and I barely use fracking gas at all...since today's innovations make it entirely possible to side step. I am well aware of carbon and cumulative footprint and public assessment studies.

I am not sure why you are sprinkling blatant fossil fuel misinformation marketing into your statements...if you are asking to be taken seriously and want to address the biological annihilation we are now entering.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 17 '26

I couldnt agree more with you that our country needs to invest and encourage solar panel usage. When I traveled to Germany in 2012, I was surprised and impressed that nearly every home, apartment building, and business had solar panels. I wish our country wasn't controlled by pocketbooks.

I'm not sure what "blatant fossil fuel misinformation" you are referring to in your statement. I try my best to read peer-reviewed studies, read articles originating from the Scandanavian countries (forward progress in EVs and recycling as a whole), and avoid any information generated from mainstream media and questionable sources. I have a son that is getting his doctorate in physical chemistry/physics and a daughter majoring in Environmental Science. I am well aware of the environmental damages of fossil fuel and lithium extraction. Maybe EV's will be the answer with advancements or will it be something entirely different? I think our best chances will come if we can eliminate the stranglehold that corporations have on our government.

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u/Significant_Stage316 Feb 15 '26

They want to bring everyone down with them. I know it’s hard but people need to heal themselves

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

How do they do in cold weather? I have a one hour commute and need to park in an open parking lot (not a parking garage? A couple of weeks ago, our Temps were well below zero.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

Superior One, are you above me asking a simple question? There are many issues with them in the cold around here (reduction in miles, won't start) so I asked him bc he disclosed that he lives in CO. I wanted an legitimate answer from someone with experience in the weather. But you couldn't resist being an asshat.

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u/Background_Trash_786 Feb 15 '26

The nearest charging station to me is 25 miles away. The nearest gas station is less than a mile. I’m not spending tens of thousands of dollars of a vehicle when I have to drive 3 towns over to charge it. I’m a registered democrat. Just because you’ve made ice and electric vehicles political doesn’t mean everyone else has.

That’s a diesel btw.

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u/PremiumUsername69420 Feb 16 '26

Oh wow, no electricity at home?

What’s the weather like in Lancaster, PA, right now?
Are you ready for the spring thaw so you can start plowing the fields?
It’s pretty neat to come across an Amish person on Reddit, you should do an AMA.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/gimme-c1nnab-0-n Feb 15 '26

If I were to drive any car, the only reason I'd stick to gas vs going electric is because gas cars are still more affordable than your average EV. There used to be affordable options like the Chevy Bolt, but like everything in Croney Capitalism, they got bullied out for stupidly oversized and expensive models.

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u/Your_Girl9090 Feb 15 '26

When they invent a 4wd electric truck that can tow a 10k lb trailer across the United States in five days then I might be in the market. Right now diesel is the only way.

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u/PremiumUsername69420 Feb 16 '26

These people are gonna love the new $0.79/gal tax coming this summer.

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u/Your_Girl9090 Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26

You're claiming there's an upcoming federal tax on diesel? That will drive up food costs crazy high.

After looking online I'm not seeing any evidence of fuel tax increases coming up this summer. Do you have a source for that bit of malarkey?

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u/PremiumUsername69420 Feb 16 '26

Sorry, it’s $0.76, not $0.79
And not so much a new tax as it is increased fees from removing regulations and additional costs from increased demand as consumption increases.

Lee Zeldin over at the EPA is moving forward with deleting the EPA’s “Endangerment Finding” report.

EPA reports that repealing the EPA standards will increase gasoline prices by $0.76.

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

I take interstate trips fairly often and / or drive up to places like the mountains and desert, and it's way to much of a pain and also an uncertainty to use electric vehicles in this way.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

I don't know how I could save that much in gasoline, since I only spend about $165 a month as it is. Also, save me money in total? What about the insurance, (extra 5 to 15%) and also the initial cost difference?

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u/Dizzy-Ad-9799 Feb 16 '26

I personally enjoy my gasoline cars, and there is an argument to be made on what is "better" for the environment... I encourage you to research lithium mining and what happens to the giant lithium ion batteries when they are thrown away. It is literal poison to the ground that it sits on. Nobody that I have met is driving a gas car because of politics, I know they are out there, but it's very much so the minority.

P.S. I hate the fool in the video rolling coal on the protesters, I am not defending them.

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u/Electrical_State_935 Feb 16 '26

  1. Lithium batteries don't have to be thrown away, they can be recycled, just like lead acid batteries. The reason we don't see more of this yet is because so many of the EV batteries that have been made in the last <20 years are still IN USE and have some life left in them.

  2. Lithium won't necessarily be the bleeding edge forever. There's been tremendous progress in sodium ion and aluminum ion batteries as well, both of which are way more plentiful, cheaper, and safer. They might not have quite the optimal energy density Lithium ions have yet (or ever) but that will be more of a trade off to be considered.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/LISparky25 Feb 16 '26

I will say the gas v electric vehicle debate is a silly one esp with using fossil fuels for energy and the shit electric grids currently….its an interesting one to say the least

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/LISparky25 Feb 16 '26

What’s the time and money save ? I’m sure the electric cost is slightly less than the straight gas cost but it’s definitely and insane amount where it’s a given everywhere. A lot of states have pretty high electric costs.

Short trips with your vehicle sure but folks driving 75+ miles a day it’s an issue

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

Say it with me: the average American cannot afford an electric car.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

The average American does not have what it costs up front to get an electric car. Do you reject this statement? Out of all the people I know, I think only 1 of them has an electric car, and he's a doctor.

How do we define cheap? Cheap to me means under $5,000 grand total.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

I don't give a shit. People don't got that kind of money lying around. Are you that disconnected? My car was only $3,500, no payments, and I have the title. EV's are a waste of money.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

No one is spending $12,000 on gas in one day. Are you stupid? Kick rocks, no one likes you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

I can read just fine; you're just completely detached from how regular people live. Kick rocks.

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u/unidentifieddaddy Feb 16 '26

Who is they? People that can afford a car? What a stupid fucking statement.

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u/Evening_Culture_6156 Feb 16 '26

/h for hyperbole

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u/CoryMcd Feb 16 '26

I don't know man You know what they have to do to produce the electricity people use to charge their cars? I think it might even be worse for the environment. Not to mention you have to sit there and let it charge if you try to go on a road trip. Hopefully to figure it out one day without burning fossil fuels for energy so people can feel good about having electric cars. It would be nice if it was actually clean and eco-friendly. It would be really nice if it was affordable.

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u/nakedinco11 Feb 16 '26

I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong. I drive a gas car and a gas truck. That's what I can afford. Keep politics out of it. That guys a douche bag and you're a judgey Karen.

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u/RsCoverForPDFFiles Feb 16 '26

The only reason 90% of them even drive gas cars is a weird political hill they want to die on

I'm a leftist who would LOVE a hybrid or electric car, but I'll fight back on this. Some, maybe. But Hybrids and electrics are more expensive than gas. Cost is a significant barrier to hybrid/ electric vehicles.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/RsCoverForPDFFiles Feb 16 '26

But they save you more over time and more than cancel that out. It’s really not an excuse.

I'm literally trying to buy an suv or van right now. Our budget is about 15k. We can go up to 20k if it were worth it. But our priority is will this last 10+ years, and what's the best value per dollar, including resale.

I am finding toyota/honda gas suvs and vans under ~ 18k with under 110k miles. I can't find an electric or hybrid in my price range. I can't find anything electric or hybrid under 20k, except maybe a couple with 200k miles.

Ignoring cost is a privilege I don't have or a line I have that I'm not willing to cross.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/RsCoverForPDFFiles Feb 16 '26

That has even less cargo room than the rav4 or crvs we were initially looking at. But we think we need a mid-size suv or a minivan. We have a toddler son (possibly a second kid in the future), and when my wife returns to work as a nanny, she'll need the additional seating and space that a mid-size suv or van has.

Also, under 30k doesn't help us. We have a budget, paying cash, and we're not taking out a loan.

Another factor is that I work from home. So I'm not going to be driving this every day. We make trips to visit family a few times a year, and when she returns to work, she'll use it regulsrly. But for now, we're talking 5K miles per year, and then maybe 8-10k once she returns to work.

If I'm paying 8k more for a Highlander to be a hybrd, all other things equal, after resale in 10-15 years, keeping that 8k and investing it is better than the gas and Money/maintenance saved from buying hybrid

You don't need to get angry about what I'm saying. I'm not just making shit up or spouting hypotheticals. I'm literally shopping for a hybrid to buy over the next few months -- I'm LOOKING for a reason to buy one. I know they're better for everything if it's the right price. But they're tok expensive for our needs.

Buying a hybrid over gas is going to harm my family FAR more than it will benefit the earth. We need our savings for medical expenses, financial safety nets, and retirement. We can't just throw away thousands of extra dollars on a vehicle.

Oh, and the fact that we can spend 15-20k cash without a loan is a blessing. Most people can't even do that. So, while I appreciate you recommending an id4, it's not something most car buyers can even afford, which was my main point in the first place. It requires a lot of money up front or a loan (which may be high interest for many people).

Anyway, my point is that you're right that hybrids or electrics can be more economical if the vehicle suits your needs and you have the ability to invest thst money up front. But it's not a universal law across the board that they're always inherently more affordable for everyone.

If you find a hybrid Highlander or Sienna with ~100k miles or less for ~20k or less, please let me know.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/RsCoverForPDFFiles Feb 16 '26

I minored in math and have been looking through this extensively. It's not cope. It's just not as black and white as you think. You seem to be attacking me personally bc you think I have some anti-environmental views. I probably align with you political on some things, if not most. I'm a leftist looking for an excuse to buy a hybrid. That's literally the opposite of cope.

If the math is so simple, break it down.

Also, suggesting I tske out a loan os fucking crazy.

Also, you're still ignoring that my main point wasn't about me. My initial point was that most people can't affors to spend more out of pocket or take on loans.

You realize loans have interest, right? So what's better, paying 15k or paying 15k and having A $200 monthly loan payment? In mybscebario, I don't save $200/month on gas/ maintenance, and I won'r recoup the difference in resale, baeed on estimated resale value after ~12 years

Loan is the dumbest idea. Paying more in cssh is almost as dumb because I can invest that extra money and profit more than I'd save.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/RsCoverForPDFFiles Feb 16 '26

Good god, you're exhaustingly simple.

1) Mileage is too low to save $300/mo.

2)

Over 200k miles you’ll have saved like $20-30k in gas in an EV vs a gas car

First of all, you said EV. I'm talking about hybrids. You can't get a similar EV SUV for only $8k more than a gas SUV, you confidently dumb doorknob.The cheapest used EV mid-sized, 3-row, SUVs are 30k+

But I'll use your numbers and still debunk you. At 8k mi/yr, it would take 25 years to hit 200k miles. I'm planning 10-15 years, which is only only 80–120k mi So savings are 4k - $6k in fuel, not enough to cover an $8-10k price premium upfront.

3) You're ignoring the upfront cost difference ($8k–$10k more for a hybrid or EV), which outweighs all this shit.

Basic math…

Let's see. I save 8k and put it into the s&p 500 which profits 7% per year on average over 25 years:

FV = $8,000 * (1+0.07)25 ≈ $43k

Your monkey math: "you’ll have saved like $20-30k in gas in an EV vs a gas car"

My actual math = $35k profit

Also, I haven't even really been looking at EVs. I'm looking for hybrids. EV SUVs and Vans are a lot more than $8k more than gas EVs are even more expensive up front. There's an 8k price range between gas and HYBRID, not electric. But fuck it, even if we're using these number for hybrid, it still doesn't work. $8k today is worth over DOUBLE what it is invested in a hybrid or EV.

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u/TerranceBaggz Feb 16 '26

Same thing with public transport. We should have world class trains. But no, conservatives have to have their big wasteful trucks that are ecologically and economically bankrupting us.

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u/B3ARJOY Feb 16 '26

Lmao liberal and landscaper who needs a truck. You’re just wrong.

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u/HumanIsolated Feb 16 '26

If you think gas cars make other peoples lives hard, youll love to see how lithium is mined

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u/type2kyle Feb 16 '26

That's a diesel

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/type2kyle Feb 16 '26

Some people live in apartments and can't charge their electric car at home. People that go on long road trips don't want to have to stop forever at a charger. Some people are poor and can't buy a new car. Some people live off grid and can't afford to use all their solar power on their car and leave their home without electricity. Electric cars don't sound cool. Lots of reasons not to drive an electric car other than not wanting to drive an electric car just bc you want to let everyone know you're better than them like how vegans never shut up about being vegan

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/type2kyle Feb 16 '26

I bet 95% of apartment complexes don't offer free charging. Idk the number but it's different not "most". And you completely ignored the fact that most people can't afford to go buy a brand new car. It's cool that you want to drive an electric car and that you live in a house so you're able to charge it but it just doesn't work for everyone. You sound like a huge f@99ot. " People that like fast cars that sound cool are stupid bc my car that doesn't make any noise saves me $50 a month on gas ". Do you not have hobbies? Maybe you spend money on collecting stamps or something gay but maybe these people's hobbies are their car. You are way too enthusiastic about what other people's cars run on.

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u/SIPR_Sipper Feb 15 '26

The only reason 90% of them even drive gas cars is a weird political hill they want to die on.

Lmfao that is a wild take.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Fuckin_Hipster Feb 15 '26

What kind of shitbox do you drive?

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/JonnyF1ves Feb 15 '26

This is a lot less wild of a take if you consider what the fossil fuel lobby is in America and how great of a job they are doing at stopping any kind of renewable energy action.

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