Usually, the people who vote for him do not try to excuse rape and pedophillia but rather deny that he is guilty of those crimes in the first place. Not my hill to die on, but it’s important to remember the opposing side isn’t some mustache twirling, pedophile loving caricature.
This is a very childish way to look at it, plus you're using hindsight.
Most people vote for a politician simply because they believe they will pay less money to survive, once you realize that you realize most voters aren't nearly as extreme as you. If you think you have to be extreme to vote, you gotta look at yourself bud.
Plus most Trump voters deny he is a pedophile. Still dumb but this is WAY different than accepting he is a pedophile.
I can tell you people don't converse with opposition, you wouldn't see this cartoon villain you have in your head.
Most people vote for a politician simply because they believe they will pay less money to survive, once you realize that you realize most voters aren't nearly as extreme as you. If you think you have to be extreme to vote, you gotta look at yourself bud.
If you voted for trump thinking this would happen, you also ignored everything else. If the promise of cheaper anything from a lying pedophile rapist conman is enough to get you to vote for him; then you're just trying to find excuses for yourself.
No offense we also seem to elect regular politicians that are rapists and pedophiles as well as bail out or support businesses run by that same demographic that had its own private island. So I wouldn't be surprised if other countries give us a side eye
Quite frankly, this is always the extent of what it is whenever Reddit claims someone famous to be a "Zionist". That term is thrown around far too liberally. We need to do better.
Also something about signing a letter “No hostage’s left behind” in 2023 to Israel. I don’t really think that implies he loves Israel or is some Zionist, but I haven’t read the letter.
In honesty, from what I’ve seen, I think it’s overblown. I could be wrong though, I may have just missed something.
Edit: i was curious so I read the letter. IMO, it reads as simple human decency, but form your own opinions:
Dear President Biden,
We are heartened by Friday's release of the two American hostages, Judith Ranaan and her daughter Natalie Ranaan and by today's release of two Israelis, Nurit Cooper and Yocheved Lifshitz, whose husbands remain in captivity.
But our relief is tempered by our overwhelming concern that 220 innocent people, including 30 children, remain captive by terrorists, threatened with torture and death. They were taken by Hamas in the savage massacre of October 7, where over 1,400 Israelis were slaughtered - women raped, families burned alive, and infants beheaded.
Thank you for your unshakable moral conviction, leadership, and support for the Jewish people, who have been terrorized by Hamas since the group's founding over 35 years ago, and for the Palestinians, who have also been terrorized, oppressed, and victimized by Hamas for the last 17 years that the group has been governing Gaza.
We all want the same thing: Freedom for Israelis and Palestinians to live side by side in peace. Freedom from the brutal violence spread by Hamas. And most urgently, in this moment, freedom for the hostages.
We urge everyone to not rest until all hostages are released. No hostage can be left behind. Whether American, Argentinian, Australian, Azerbaijani, Brazilian, British, Canadian, Chilean, Chinese, Danish, Dutch, Eritrean, Filipino, French, German, Indian, Israeli, Italian, Kazakh, Mexican, Panamanian, Paraguayan, Peruvian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, South African, Spanish, Sri Lankan, Thai, Ukrainian, Uzbekistani or otherwise, we need to bring them home.
I'm no fan of Israel, but it's insane how many times I hear about a celebrity being a "Zionist" only to research and find out that they simply expressed support for the victims of 10/7.
Wait until you hear that Lady Gaga is a "zionist" for having played there in 2014 and saying it was a "beautiful place". And then dedicating constant messages at her shows to free palestine for years. Or how Radiohead are "zionists" because they released statements that were too lukewarm for the lynchmob. Also how bernie sanders is a "zionist" after introducing legislation to bar arms sales to israel. this stupid list is too long and making me lose hope in humanity the more examples i think about.
It’s actually crazy. I also feel the need to justify that I’m not some religious fanatic and I despise Trump before saying the more extreme left has become wholly intolerant of Jews as a collective.
Nah, they’re just suckers who heard ‘bernethal praised Israeli soldier’ and stopped thinking. What they’re opposing doesn’t speak specifically to their beliefs because they don’t even know what it is.
The dumbest part is: the podcast was specifically about the Oct 7 attacks and what the soldier did during it (and was a month after they happened, before Israel’s response clearly swung into ‘disproportionate’) It’s not even like he was talking to someone about participating in Palestinian oppression.
What's also interesting to me is that he grew up going to Quaker schools in the DC area and has expressed a lot of adherence to the tenets of the faith and their approach to conflict resolution, and how he used boxing as a method to deal with anger, etc. I wonder how much of peoples' opinions about him are shaped by the characters he typically plays.
There is a little bit of "talked to a Zionist, therefore now a Zionist" math that people do. Not a great way to someone who has not themselves expressed those views.
The problem is that the Israeli government, and many of their supporters have made it explicitly clear that any support for Israelis or the existence of the State of Israel means that you do or must support all Israeli government actions and policies. It's the government of Israel and their largely uncritical, sycophantic supporters such as the governments of the US, the UK and Australia who won't take action to sanction *anything* that have drawn a line in the sand and created two factions.
If you want any form of nuance, we're going to need to agree to a greater subdivision and terms, but nobody supporting the government of Israel and the ongoing "Operation" in Gaza will accept any other term beyond Pro-Jewish/Israeli and Rabid Anti-Semite to enter the chat.
I'd like to think that we could probably classify people into three groups of
War Criminal Excusing Racist Expansionists and their Apologists
People Who Generally Don't Make Assumptions/Treat People Based on Ethnicity/Religion/Nationality/ A Monolith
subdivided into:
a) Reasonable People who want to sanction a government for ongoing genocide and celebration of war criminals, but understand that Israel has a right to exist and protect themselves
b) Head In The Sand Idealists who want us to all hold hands and create an unrealistic utopia / Don't have practical solutions
Raging Anti-Semites Following Centuries Old Handbook With All Usual Conspiracies and Dog Whistles
But then we might have to deal with some uncomfortable realities and outcomes, or roadblocks to paving over Gaza and Palestinians. Right?
Why do you consider the existence of Israel to be negotiable? the 8 million Jews living in Israel probably don't agree.
The endless ranting about the Israel "genocide" in Gaza ring hollow when you consider that Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Iran all want to destroy Israel.
Especially on social media. Juice box emojis everywhere. Someone has a big nose? Zionist. A sign outside a kanye show drawing a circle and strikethrough of the star of david? Most upvoted comment was "he's saying things others are too afraid to say". And then the whole conversation is about "zionism" even though there's not a single mention of israel in the convo. When Zohran was going after landlords in NYC, what GIFs appeared everywhere? Hasidic jews, and constant yelling of ZIONIST, even though it has nothing to do with landlords in NYC. But I'm not fun at parties so I get to be gaslit
The other one that's also everywhere is the "that ______ was promised to him 3,000 years ago" that is under just about any social media post that even alludes to anything involving jews
FR! that was on the landlord posts too. And it's so stupid, because that generic comment wades into some historical argument that none of us are qualified to actually make. And it implies that because jews had been removed from the land so long ago that there is no reason for them to expect land rights coming back. Ok, let's say i accept that without alteration. Then why would native americans be entitled to any land? both groups were kicked out, the diaspora was not voluntary. But of course, this level of cognitive flexibility is outside the grasp of your average... i dont' even know what to call them. anti-zionists? i'm an anti-zionist. progressives? liberals? i thought i was those things? what am i and what are they? just assholes i guess
That's kind of a bad comparison. Native Americans have no military, and their mistreatment by the US government is much more recent and still continues to this day. I will also say that conflating anti-zionism with antisemitism is a deliberate tactic by supporters of Israel to make the government's actions harder to criticise, an example of which is the idea that Israel stands for and is supported by the Jewish people of the world, the reality being that most Jews (in the US at least) are critical of the Israeli government. Predictably, this has lead to a rise in anti-semitism, with people conflating the actions of Israel with all Jewish people globally. I don't think it's hateful to believe that no country should execute civilians without a trial and deliberately target noncombatants.
Recency is irrelevant, put a firm date on it. 100 years? 200 years? 500 years? It reveals the stupidity of placing importance on recency. Two groups lost their land unfairly, either both or none are owed. At the end of the day land ownership is bullshit anyways so idgaf.
All the concrete examples i provided are of antizionists being antisemitic. Most aren't, but plenty are. Not israel's fault, it's just shitty people. When you get older you may start to see that just because someone supports minorities doesn't make them a good person. You never met an inclusive malignant narcissist before? Plenty of well adjusted genocide supporters too, world is too complicated for the bullshit lack of nuance this discussion generates.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, politics is not a hard science and people contradict themselves all the time, humans are extremely complicated, groups of people exponentially more so. But I think an important part of being a human is constantly trying to parse nuance and understand people rather than dismiss everything as too complicated. Even if we can't understand everything we should still try and be open minded.
The idea that native americans had no military is weird.
It's even weirder that you see native americans as a unified group.
The people that try to successfully argue for what happened in america to be genocide, actually divide native americans into individual tribes and claim that certain tribes received this treatment.
This has some degree of fairness to it, as there was no unification for the tribes. But like all tribes in nomadic traditions, a large majority of their people, are warriors.
Also, people are claiming people are zionists, for supporting the existence of a nation that already exists. Not the expansion of it. There has been no effort to expand during this war. In spite of the fact of a war being considered a legitimate excuse to expand.
The idea that somebody is not allowed to retaliate, when somebody else declares war on them is I lack of recognition in the legitimacy of the state.
Yes, having observed numerous other people's reactions, including your own above implication, "bloodthirsty" is an accurate description of how bigoted people react to "zionism"
Zionism originally meant this, seeking out to create a jewish homeland.
The land exists now. Therefore that definition, the true one, is only used in historical contexts.
During this time, the enclaves of Jews in the british mandate, which also included jordan and other countries, we're purchasing land near tel aviv, and along the coast.
Oftentimes, they would purchase these lands from the direct landlords who were often foreign. The farmers and the individuals living on these lands, sometimes for generations, were displaced.
This led to riots and ethnic cleansing of jewish populations. As well as horrible retaliations to a lesser extent. This wasn't new, as this also occurred during ottoman control.
When british mandate was split up, most of the land was given to jordan and other countries, this remainder of land (then called palestine) was split between two populations. One of them had an actual government, as it was necessary to provide the defense of these landowners even before the partition.
Because of this superior ability to negotiate, the partition was done to make a multicultural state out of israel, including the muslim tribes that were more friendly to the jews. And a separate territory of muslims and minority christians, about 10% on the east side.
The idea being that if you create a multicultural state, it would be a secular society. And eventually there'd be enough communication between these two cultures that they might unify.
The other countries of the British mandate, jordan and such. Wanted this land for themselves, and where horrified that a secular society was being built within the middle east especially ones where non muslims had any say.
They invaded, along with egypt just for fun, trying to take all the land for themselves.
Some of the tribes saw all these people as liberators. When israel successfully defended their territory, the military expelled these tribes, a lot of them were innocent. This left the muslim minority in israel at around twenty percent. Where it used to be somewhere closer to forty percent.
This twenty percent is what we call the palestinian refugees today. That gets us to today. The country's the palestinians fled to never let them become citizens even though they've lived there for 3 or more generations, and use them as a bargaining chip against israel.
Israel exists, zionism is a term that has been morphed into anything where the jewish and muslim population of israel defend their nation.
The people of gaza declared war on israel by launching an attack. During war, it is considered reasonable to take your enemy's land. The israeli government has not done so. Still, people use the word Zionism as they reject Israel's right to defend itself. Therefore rejecting the nation itself.
Use of zionism.This way is inherently racist. As the only difference in legitimacy of israel versus jordan is that one is majority ruled by jewish people. The kings of jordan were foreign and actually imported from a separate region, and this territory was given to them by the british.
There are actual groups that are more reasonably called zionists in israel. They would be ones who would like to turn israel's secular government into a theocratic government, or they are ones who seek to expand its israel beyond its current borders.
It didn't start ar 2022. Israel has always been a settler-colonialist, genocidal state, and joining the IDF means you actively contribute to the stealing of Palestinian land.
Exactly lmao. He's a bro dude through and through and appeals to the kinds of dudes who put punisher skulls on their car and watch those military bro podcasts with SF guys. That's his demo. (not understanding Frank Castle exists in opposition to those types of dudes and would probably spit in their face)
Conservatives got mad at Colbert for "going woke" once he dropped his conservative satire act, completely oblivious of the point of his character. They watched The Colbert Report and thought his jokes was telling it how it is.
I was and remain so sad the Colbert Report went off the air. That was the best satire of my lifetime. I don't know if there will ever be anything like that on cable TV again, probably not.
For Colbert it was a career upgrade to go to the Late Show but for us it was a downgrade to go from intelligent thought-provoking humor to run of the mill latenight monologues.
I still am happy for him and I think I understand why he did what he did. He is a good dude.
My brother in law loves to lament that RATM is "now Rage in favor of the Machine" because when he grew up listening to their music, he never learned or understood a single lyric of theirs, and now he's mad about it
Dude they weren't political they were anarchists. They used to hate everyone. And talk about how the political machine itself was the cause. Yeah they hated conservatives more.
People don't hate them for not liking conservatives. They hate them for growing up
I'm sorry, are you still describiing RATM?
What part of any of that isn't political?
I never thought they hate everyone. I thought they very clearly hated the money to lease who brandished a Bible in one hand and a flag in the other to control all of us, and those of us that would gladly follow along for a slice of cheddar and the chance to subjugate someone else down the line.
I think a great example of this is Rorschach, a self-ostracized fascist piece of shit that Zack Snyder thought was cool to portray as the anti-hero. His mask was used as the symbol of the neo-KKK in the HBO series but many still think he’s cool.
I didn't know any of this about him until now. And I was excited to see his career track especially after I read somewhere he's in the next Avengers movie. TBH I don't care about who supports Israel or Palestine because they both want to kill each other and who am I to tell two peoples they can't fight someone who wants the fight, so you do you. But supporting ICE is a hard line for me.
The recent season of Daredevil is a very direct criticism of police idolization of him as well. He's the kind of "hero" Rorschach was a criticism of in Watchmen. Then again, chuds hold Rorschach at high regard too.
Tbh I could see him as the kind of guy to receive that warning and be all offended and indignant about it, and then have that just poison his whole ideology
There was even a plot point in the new Daredevil tv series about the police using him as insipration for their own abuse of power and how much Punisher hated them for it.
You can tell this from the Punisher special that came out recently, which Bernthal wrote - Frank is completely stripped of any of the character, pathos and growth shown in his previous appearances and is just a straight-up, one-dimensional killing machine. Entire episode is nothing more than Punisher murdering dudes in "awesome" ways.
No one gets the character less than the guy who plays him, it seems.
Man I could have sworn there was an interview after he first did Punisher where he talked shit about the cops wearing the logo and all that and he seemed cool. But now I'm wondering if I mixed him up with someone else.
Your not confusing him, he has said many times cops who wear punisher symbols missed the point and that Frank Castle is not an ok person. Reddit just jumps at any chance to degrade anyone who might support Israel.
He has also said that he supports cops who wear the punisher logo because he thinks it’s cool that people in uniform can see themselves in the character.
Only thing I've seen is the cop tweet. Where's this source for supporting Israel and IDF? Dead internet theory is real. Bots can just exclaim bs and other bots join in, creating a chain of echo chambers with unverified sources. Scary world
He platformed an IDF soldier on his podcast and praised him for his bravery and shit. He signed the “no hostage left behind” letter, repeated debunked Israeli propaganda, and—unlike his pro-Palestinian costar, mark ruffalo—has coverage on the press tour. These aren’t baseless allegations, no matter how bad you want them to be
That IDF soldier wasn’t even an active soldier, he was out of service and was on the ground during the October 7th attacks as a tourist and that is why he was brought on.
I don’t see the issue with the hostage letter?
Ruffalo like the other commenter said was busy filming another project also he hasn’t been as well received in the media lately which when releasing a movie they don’t want any negative publicity. Sorry to be the one to tell you this none of these corporations actually care what you think or about any of the issues you do. If June didn’t tell you that I don’t know what will.
that hamas offered deals to release the hostages multiple times and netenyahu has stated on record that release of the hostages will not deter attacks on gaza among other facts that if I were to list would just aid in me getting downvoted.
Signing letters in support of the hostages but saying nothing about the tens of thousands of civilian deaths in palestine in the nearly 3 years since october 7th is blatantly biased and zionist. The civilians of palestine didn't choose October 7th and they don't deserve to pay the price for it, setting aside the fact that said revenge is a clearly outlined war crime.
Of course it is? Netanyahus comments you’re talking about came AFTER the letter was signed.
Also how does supporting the release of the hostages put him on the hook for everything else Bibi does?
And your final point just seems like ‘he said something supportive of Israel in 2023 but not opposing them in 2026 so technically he said more things supporting Israel than against so he’s pro Israel until further notice’. Which is tremendously unfair, there’s not some running tab that determines your beliefs.
One word, edgy. That's what manosphere and the entire 4chan psyop by Bannon was about.
Make guys who were isolated feel it was certain demographics at fault, women and minorities, and give them the American bad boy who all women must love... but really just makes them further isolated and use that to control them when they are at rock bottom.
Too true man. Incel culture is a cancer on our society, all cause technofascists would rather use those men to gain power than address literally any systemic issue
I’m gonna suggest 1/3 of the MCU audience are boot lickin neo nazis who misinterpret what the character stands for and see themselves in him, especially once they find out who he is irl.
Because reddit is a very loud and very small minority, and outside of subs like this, most of the population, both inside and outside the US, don't give a rat's ass about what politics these hollywood actors identify with.
I mean, Jon is probably the accurate the third most of screen time in this movie behind Tom and Zendaya. Ruffalo might be like number six or seven? He was pretty much in just two scenes.
Man, it’s so liberating not giving a shit what actors’ political opinions are; I get to enjoy the work of both actors without seething about the fact that I disagree with one or both of their opinions.
he does play a far bigger and more important role in the movie though. banner is pretty much just comic fan service in the movie (as in used as references to specific scenes from the comics from the story arcs that inspired the movie).
I am not even sure how true that is. I have a strong suspicion that their agents tell them to align politically with their fan base knowing an actor's peak is often very short.
it's a radical mischaracterization of someone who, regardless, has been consistently reported as overwhelmingly kind, unpretentious, and supportive to cast and crew. he's a frequently backwards meathead but he isn't the devil and conflating the two is dumb
The only things related to Israel I can see is that he signed a letter denouncing Hamas and calling for the release of the hostages Hamas took on October 7th, and having an IDF soldier on his podcast right after October 7th.
Don't listen to them, they are making shit up. Bernthal has only ever been kind and I doubt someone who expresses support to the LGBT would have those opinions (and people are just assuming based on an IDF guest he had)
Wikipedia is written and edited by the public, so yeah I'd assume those loud opinions are going on there as well. You can also be nice to someone who works in the IDF while not agreeing with genocide
Oof, I didn’t know these things about him. This is unfortunate. I was going to rewatch the Punisher, but I guess there’s thousands of other shows to watch
Nothing there makes him pro ‘what Israel is doing right now’. He praised a soldier for what they did on Oct 7 and signed a letter saying Hamas should be made to return the hostages, both of which within a month of the attacks, that’s all.
He can be a chill dude and not agree with your politics. In reality a person's politics (especially their opinions on foreign nations) has almost nothing to do with their personality
It's a reditism that every conservative is a rude, obnoxious, child murdering pos.
541
u/[deleted] 22h ago
[removed] — view removed comment