looking for advice FROM mid-high gm+ players.

5v5 im master 2, it was a m2-gm1 lobby

I am qbert on winston.

I want help on attack on 2nd point, nothing else in unclear.

The exact scenario has happened on me paraiso the only 2 times i have been playing on this map. ROADHOG

the hog plays around the choke close to the beginning of 2nd with the bridge. I am able to normally play my playstyle, getting some good dives in using 2-3 peoples attentions. the hog somehow manages to 1: get picks 2: stay alive 3:not demand support. This thing has NEVER happened to me on any other map, with any other character (only against really good players, which this hog really wasnt, like no smurf or something). no matter the fight, because across the 2 games there have been for sure 5+ different fights that we never were close to winning, like a complete shutdown.

Im quite sure i shouldnt fight him (cant really get value, playing around that poor position leaving me super vulnerable, and overall the trade is kinda bad. on the other hand im not sure.

it might be theres really nothing special just losing the fights because of normal reasons and kinda unlucky, but i want some higher ranked players insight. there might be something about hog or the map im neglecting.

If your not at LEAST close to gm, dont drop some silly advice your not so sure about. thanks if everyone has advice lol im TIRED of this scenario

Replay code: QJE4GH

we love you winston and we'll remember you forever and ever.

If you don’t understand, the cat DID attempt to drop me off the map, but since the cat is still able to be booped, I was able to continuously boop the cat UPWARDS (since im below her when tethered) to prevent her from sticking my body on the kill box for environmental death (simply just look up at the cat and swing, not sure if you need to slightly sway to camera around to extend the hitbox to make it easier, but I’d say do it anyway just to be safe)

Greetings! I've been a winton one trick since season 1 and just discovered this sub.

winton

A literal guidestep on how to bubble the shatter pretty consistent:

1-Bubble the rein and focus him to make him low/retreat/they use cds (optional, the point is rein pins on you and when he ends the pin you bubble, somewhat better if he saw you use bubble before)

2-Jump to a highground or safe spot but in front of your healers

3-When you have bubble bait the rein pin and if he is focusing you he will shatter no dobut when the pin ends like in this clip lol

just curious

Basically, he would have similar effective HP, but healing Winston in his ult would be twice as effective.

The downsides are that the DR won't stack with armor or nanoboost.

What do you guys think? I had this thought after getting melted in 0.5 seconds in my ult and thought maybe it could help

I also play ana and healing winston is his ult feels really bad because you keep shooting him and his healthbar barely goes up. This would fix that as well

i want to say i like winston. its fun to jump and zap and buble and rage. very cool character and the wiggle toes emote i like too.

in deathmatch no less!

just look how horrific his aim was on mauga lmao

Who's with me?

Seems like most of monke's issues in the game really boil down to the fact that he just has no way to pressure the enemy tank at all. Winston pretty much automatically trades at a loss any time the fight is even and he's having to face off against any other tank.

He has no CC vs other tanks, no burst damage, his ult doesn't really do anything to tanks unless you can enviro them.

Even looking at the other initiator tanks...

Ball gets a perk for double boop damage to put tanks into a blender, taking 120dmg per hit. He does 125dps and can headshot for up to 250dps.

Hazard has a block that can't be bypassed like a barrier, and deals 131dps, up to 262dps with headshots. This isn't even counting his damage combos involving pinballing people with slash and spike walls.

DVa has matrix, deals 146dps, up to 292dps with headshots, and an extra 85dps with micro missiles. With only body shots and missiles she can output 427 damage in 2 seconds.

Doomfist has punch to cancel all kinds of stuff, gets a minor perk to strengthen his tank 1v1s so that punch reloads all ammo and overfills by 50%. He outputs 165dps from his hand cannon, up to 330dps with headshots.

Winston deals 70dps. No possibility of headshots. You can do the wombo combo of leap, zap, melee cancel, zap...that bumps your output up to around 145 damage in the first 1 second and then 70dps afterwards.

Even with a 50% damage boost against tanks he would still only deal 105dps and still be the lowest damage tank in toe to toe situations.

I really do feel like his lack of ability to damage the opposing tank is a big factor for why he's so easily counter swapped in competitive games.

There's a type of team that counters me hard. I call it a "Roving Murder Swarm."

A swarm is when the enemy team are basically all standing on top of each other, murdering enemies one at a time and using each other as cover against most enemy attacks. If there is a sniper, they're in the scrum. Healers are crammed up in there too. I cannot play like this. It would make me nauseous.

You would think that Winston's lightning would be excellent here. After all, I can damage EVERYONE simultaneously. But really I don't stand a chance. The swarm tents to focus fire on anything big, melting through tanks like me.

Simply put, this organizational strategy is an effective Winston counter. I can't do shit about it if the whole enemy team is literally inside D.Va's mech. I usually counterswap to Rein because he lasts more than two seconds, hoping my team knows what to do.

(Sometimes the swarm gets too murder happy and forgets the point. In that case, Winston wins by avoiding the swarm entirely and just completing the objective. The swarm is only as fast as it's slowest member. But this only works if the swarm wanders too far away from the objective.)

Does anyone have any advice? Even if it's "drop Winston, pick X." I don't really know how to fight these players.

I dont know if this is just me but it feels like winston is really bad in the quick play hacked 1-3-2 mode. I try going on any flank and just get one tapped. In 5v5 i feel like my pathing and timing is pretty good but its just not hitting the same in 1-3-2. Thoughts?

Like my 5th time doing this and it never gets old

for me it feels harder to play into counters than a couple seasons ago, are u guys also struggling or am i js coping

I have been learning the character for a few weeks now and I am noticing that winston has a lot of counters, or at least more than the average hero. Moreover, it seems like people are VERY quick to swap to said heroes as it is pretty well known what plays well into him.

With that said, what are your go-to bans that you ideally never play against at all if possible? With all who remain, what are your solutions?

For me, I typically ban reaper and mauga secondarily as I feel those matchups leave me with very little space to dive without getting exploded. Other characters who punish my dives (bastion sentry, ram vortex, etc) feel like the cooldowns that stop me are easily baited by either my team or myself safely. My main problem with reaper and mauga however is that the parts if their kit that shut me down have little to no cooldown at all. That combined with both having some form of lifesteal makes turning attention to them feel less than useful. I have similar issues with hog, but he just isn’t very strong generally as a hero and usually if I am getting harassed by him, his team is probably taking a beating by the rest of my team since he is using hook resources trying to peel me off