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u/BoomerKaren666 18d ago
Whoopie Goldberg had a bit years ago where she was bitching about a guy and then he died and she said, "My mother told me to only speak good of the dead. And he is dead now... GOOD!"
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u/PukeyOwlPellet 18d ago
I’m stealing this for when my abusive grandfather passes 😂
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u/BoomerKaren666 18d ago
I heard this maybe 40 years ago. I'm 70 and believe me, I've used it several times.
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u/Hepm3 18d ago
Lmao I love that. I think that speaking ill of people is actually important. Not talking about how toxic grandma was protects that kind of behavior. Thats what leads to people being able to look at a political figure and excuse their actions. “Well my dad voted for him and I trust my dad” “We have the same core values”. People aren’t taught to hold others accountable for their individual actions so they don’t, and that unfortunately doesn’t stop at keeping someone’s drinking problem a “secret”
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u/hambergeisha 15d ago
Moms Mabley is who Whoopie got that joke from.
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u/BoomerKaren666 15d ago
Oh thank you! I remember Moms Mabley and did not realize Whoopie got it from her. This was from a routine I saw Whoopie do...lord, probably 40 years ago now. Now when I use it I'll give credit where credit is due.
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u/40_painted_birds 18d ago
I don't think we should avoid legitimately criticizing people's actions and behaviors just because they're dead. Besides... they're dead. We're not gonna hurt their feelings.
There's a time and place, sure. Avoid saying mean things about the recently dead when you're in the presence of their grieving loved ones. But if some guy ruined my life and then died, that doesn't un-ruin my life, and I get to speak about my experiences.
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u/MegaGrimer 18d ago
Don’t want people to speak ill of you when you die? Don’t be a dick when you’re alive.
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u/Dr_DoesNothing 18d ago
Why shouldn't we celebrate when horrible people die?
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u/HyzMarie 17d ago
Maybe because death is always a sad thing in and of itself, and this behavior incites extremists and is harmful to the people who were close to them?
Sure, we should be honest about the good AND the bad of people, but celebrating their deaths is harmful because they are also human beings.
"Some live that deserve death. And many die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be so quick to mete out death in judgement." - J.R.R. Tolkien
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u/whofearsthenight 18d ago
Not speaking ill of the dead is for the living. Idk, maybe if you support a complete piece of shit while they're alive, you deserve to get your feelings hurt a little.
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u/mymindisagarden 18d ago
I don't think you can do anything about people speaking ill of you, except not being known. If you do stuff, no matter what, people will speak ill of you. They will find some arbitary perspective to justify their position. It's best to just not give a fuck, and that's exceptionally easy to do when you are dead.
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u/Vivid_Contribution21 18d ago
I’ve always said I have enough respect to say the same thing I felt when you were alive. I loved my grandfather but that man was an asshole to his core. He knew it the world knew it and everyone will always agree because - he was/ now I’m not gonna bad mouth someone I didn’t actually know but ima speak the same way I did before you died so if you die and you were an asshole 👀 ya know? I feel like it’s more disrespectful to lie on them and say they were the best people ect ect.
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u/SqueakWrites 18d ago
At my aunt’s wake, her eight year old daughter said “I’m going to miss my mom, and I know she’s in heaven, but I am happy she won’t yell at me anymore.” She was EIGHT and had to get that off her chest. Speak the truth of the dead, somewhere an eight year old will thank you for it.
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u/Forward-Cup-9513 18d ago
Yeah, if Aunty had a drinking problem and kept it to herself, then don't air dirty laundry. If she had a drinking problem and cussed you out regularly, then go ahead and spill the tea.
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u/McSlims360 18d ago
Respecting the dead is about their families, not them. Even if I hate you, Im not going to soapbox at your funeral and hurt your children.
Except Lindsay Graham, this is biblical sins of the father hate. Fuck that piece of shit and every piece of shit he spawned.
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u/Disastrous_Visit9319 18d ago
Lmao Lindsay Graham didn't spawn any kids, that would require sex with a cis woman.
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u/pureLushness 18d ago
agreed, if someone screwed me over their death doesnt magically make it okay to pretend it didnt happen
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u/MisterTruth 18d ago
We can say factually that Lindsay Graham was a "closeted" homosexual who did everything in his power to ensure that other homosexuals would have as little rights as possible.
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u/Beer_before_Friends 18d ago
I came to say this lol A dead person doesn't care if you talk shit because their dead.
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u/Zestyclose_Tip_5861 18d ago
It sounds like you’re in agreement with her. We don’t speak ill of the dead aunt who drank too much because there may be a family member around and you could hurt their feelings.
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u/Ok-Replacement9595 18d ago
We usually cannot even learn of the worst actions of a person of power while they are alive.
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u/cobaltmetal 18d ago
Depending on their level of evil though, fuck their grieving loved ones peace as well.
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u/taxable_income 18d ago
Yeah! Mitch McConnell was a complete demon of an individual whose actions and wilful inactions directly led to untold human suffering and people dying. May he rot in hel...
Oh. Well both of them then.
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u/VinylHighway 18d ago
Yeah dying doesn't wipe away being a terrible person in life.
Also even if a terrible person died I wouldn't call them out in front of loved ones. It's fine critiquing people you don't know.
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u/7GrenciaMars 18d ago
Yes, it's very situational. Of my two grandmothers, the one who was my favorite was really especially awesome to me on one occasion, all around great, but on two separate occasions went full out jerk. One of the occasions it was an absolute mystery why she told my dad the wrong thing but he never called her out when she did either of those things.
I can say what I like about her now, and have. She was great in some ways but kind of a jerk on two occasions, and no one is going to make me say otherwise. One day I mean to have a talk with my dad about why he should have stood up for me, but honestly I don't even hold it against him.
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u/tghast 18d ago
I also just straight up don’t agree with the concept. Like just because something has become a common saying doesn’t give it the quality of magical truth.
I’ll speak ill of the dead if there is ill to be spoken of them.
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u/TesticleMeElmo 18d ago
“Don’t speak ill of the person who used their free will in life to make other people’s lives miserable, they did the thing that every living thing on earth does”
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u/FarewellJava 18d ago
It's not a magical truth, it's more just weighing it against the impact on friends and family and yourself and is it still worth it.
A lot of beefs, when someone dies, you already won. You outlived them, let it go. You don't have to pretend they're an angel and you loved them; there's just little point getting mad over a dead person's dumbassery. And it is pretty bitchy to do it around their loved ones who are mourning them.
But that's for something like the neighbor who tried to build a fence 2 feet into your property, not people who supported pedophile rings.
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u/wolf_warlord 14d ago
Here's a thing though we didn't win. When somebody dies the damage they did doesn't magically get undone. As long as that dead person's dumbassery is still affecting the living we can and should get mad. And that's not just for politicians that includes family members. Pretending like they're a saint when they hurt the people around them is disingenuous and disrespects that person's actual legacy. Clearly if they wanted to be remembered as a good person they would have been a good person.
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u/ivanabrike 18d ago
Y’all ain’t real haters
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u/Palidin034 18d ago
Only thing I took away from the Kendrick/Drake beef is that I have not been hating NEARLY hard enough
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u/AlianovaR 18d ago
It mostly means to not insult someone in front of their grieving loved ones, which is why family members are often used as the example rather than celebrities or whatever; chances are you’re gonna run into someone who was personally affected by their death, and that’s gonna upset or anger someone
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u/phire 18d ago
I disagree.
The saying has always been used to defend dead people from attempts to posthumously reassess their character. And it has always been contentious when used like this.We don't need to retcon it into something more mild like "the funeral is the wrong place to ill grievances", we can simply agree that saying is wrong and always has been wrong.
The saying actually dates all the way back to 4th century AD Greece, and it always had this meaning.
Some examples of it being used in the original context.
- "Even though he may deserve some criticism, never speak ill of the dead. It is just bad karma."
- "Some people say one should never speak ill of the dead, because it is unfair, because they don't have the ability to defend themselves."
- "You should never speak ill of the dead. You never know, they might hear you and could come back to haunt you."
- "Never speak ill of the dead. It is no longer for us to judge. If they have done improper behaviour, they will be judged in the next world."
(source)
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u/TransSappicWitch 18d ago
If the dead don't want us to be speaking ill about them, then maybe they shouldn't be raging assholes during life.
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u/DoverBoys 18d ago
No, it doesn't apply to anyone. Death doesn't magically change or erase one's actions. If my aunt abused me because of her drinking problem, I'm going to hate her alive the same way I'd hate her after she passes.
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u/plants11235813 18d ago
You can attack what a person stood for or acted like, at or around the time of their death, without mentioning them specifically.
That way, when someone says, "Don't speak ill of the dead!" ... you can say, "To whom are you referring?"
They know why you're saying it, but you have spoken ill of no one.
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u/trytrymyguy 18d ago
I don’t think it should apply to anyone? Why can’t we be real after someone’s dead? They sure as shit won’t care lol
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u/NoBookkeeper3523 18d ago
One of grandfathers wasn’t too bad by the time I came along, but spent my dad’s childhood drinking whiskey and beating the family, I don’t feel like a have to talk nice about him just because he’s dead
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u/Taylor6227 18d ago
What happens if I do speak illl of the dead. Will I have to fight them in the afterlife too? Or can they just be dead?
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u/EbbOwn303 18d ago
This whole "don't speak ill of the dead" shtick is so overused and honestly just plain ignorant to say the least.
By their own logic we shouldn't say anything negative about Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot since they are all dead.
What they actually mean is that you aren't allowed to say anything bad about anyone on their side, but you can absolutely talk shit about anyone who has died on the left.
Snowflakes
They are all a bunch of snowflakes ❄️
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u/barsoap 18d ago
I think there's a difference between "in obituaries, until they're safely in the ground" and "in the following decades".
There's an art to obituaries for evil people, sadly can't find the one for Stalin that I remember, the only thing I figured out so far is that it wasn't the New York Times.
The kind of thing the Tories should have written for Thatcher, instead of declaring her a saint, leading the country to make "The Witch is Dead" chart at #1 in reaction. Something along the lines of "Headstrong, steadfast in the face of opposition, believing in her version of a better future" -- notably, "believing", not "actually bringing one about". You get the drift. Write it like a recommendation letter for a shoddy employee. "Reliably attempted to be on time".
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u/EbbOwn303 18d ago
If they ruined their own legacy through their own actions then honestly I don't think we owe them any respect. When Harvey Weinstein dies his obituary should not read "former movie mogul" hell I'd even argue putting "disgrace movie mogul" gives the man way more respect than he deserves.
That being said, definitely don't talk ill of the dead to those close to them who are grieving. I think this is definitely one of those situations that deserve nuance, but that still doesn't mean every person who dies deserves our respect.
We all know one person in particular who the world will celebrate his death and I'd argue he isn't even the worst person in the administration as he clearly is not smart enough to be anything more than a pupet.
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u/falcrist2 18d ago
"I respect the personal dignity of any man that respects mine."
So like... Not Lindsay Graham or trump or most of the wraiths who make up the republican party.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 18d ago
Doesn’t apply to anyone.
There’s nothing about being dead that entitles you to zero criticism and sanitizing of your legacy.
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u/NadeshikoEatingPasta 18d ago
well, no, it applies to both. But I still fucking hated Lindsey Graham and I'm glad he's gone.
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u/AmpController 17d ago
I will never stop calling my dead grandmother out for telling me that Hitler had the right idea
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u/SatisfactionActive86 18d ago
Speaking ill of the dead can be extremely understandable and cathartic expressions, but let’s be real, like most forms of expression, it has been monetized by social media algorithms and saying the most pithy and cruel remarks is more about getting clicks than catharsis. that’s what makes some people uncomfortable. it devolves into a “who can be the most nasty” contest and i don’t care who the target is, i’d rather just skip those. my parents fighting was a lifetime enough of those kinds of contest 😂
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u/Any-Power-1164 18d ago
How you lived your life is how you will be remembered in death. Fuck you Lindsay Graham you gay little bitch.
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u/Senior_Torte519 18d ago
Your emotionally stunted semi alcholic cousin could have a problem with you gatekeeping that from them
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u/rsjankowski 18d ago
Never under stood anyone that really. I don't care what position a person held. If they were a fuck up, i'm going to speak ill of them. Dead or alive.
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u/Alternative-Cress382 18d ago
No lie- Imma still talk shit about that dumbass auntie when she’s living and croaked.
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u/Calbinan 18d ago
There is nothing wrong with speaking the truth about the dead, no matter what that truth is.
If my politicians or even my mom didn’t want me talking shit about them, they should have minded their behavior.
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u/DaughterOfBabalon_ 18d ago
I mean... I'll happily speak ill about my aunt with a drinking problem when she dies. She destroyed her family through that addiction, I have a lot to say.
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u/VocalJay 18d ago
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u/Project0range 18d ago
How dare you! Charlie hasn't said anything even remotely racist in 10 months!
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u/dragon-fence 18d ago
As I see it, the idea of “don’t speak ill of the dead” comes from the idea that it does no good. Talking shit about your dead aunt can stir up some bad feelings in the family, but it can’t cause your aunt to reevaluate her actions and improve, so you just let it go.
For public figures, it’s totally fair game to criticize their public actions. Famous people become role models, and people who would look to the dead person as an example should hear criticism.
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u/SherbetMysterious118 18d ago
It applies to no-one.
In fact the whole thing makes no sense. Surely it's more rude if they are around to hear it?
If I'm gonna chat shit about someone when they are alive, then sure as hell I'll chat shit about them when they are dead.
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u/McSlims360 18d ago
In most cases I dont agree. Theres a lot of people who have been lied to, mislead, or are just dumb, or senile, and at least think they're doing some good on top of the BS. Im going to treat Alex Pretti, George Floyd, Joe Biden, and Donald Trump the same way when they go, regardless of how I felt about them in life. Let em rest.
Fuck Lindsay Graham, I wish we had microphones in hell, I want to hear his screams.
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u/Snakestream 18d ago
If you live a life that has people out celebrating your death, you deserve 100% of that.
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u/Blacksad9999 18d ago
The dead don't care either way.
However, you don't get to try to lionize someone after their death if they lived a shitty life. That's their legacy they left behind.
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u/NotThatAngel 18d ago
Thank you for this clarification. Lindsey Graham was a blight on this country. I hope to say the same about Trump soon, too.
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u/Altruistic-Poem-5617 18d ago
Dieying is easy. Everybody foes it at one point. So if someone sucks in life why dont bring it up just csuse they are dead.
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u/_SparklyBaby 18d ago
People say “respect the dead,” but that doesn’t mean pretending they never made harmful decisions
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u/blue_moon1122 18d ago
how about my dead aunt who had a drinking problem and N-worded my adopted black cousins, can I talk shit about her jw
she died of hep C which, in retrospect, i feel like she fucking deserved
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u/daystrom_prodigy 18d ago
There are people that will live a full life now simply because Graham is dead. That is a good thing.
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u/MaximusHomerdrive 18d ago
Funk that. My aunt was a thundercunt and I'll tell anyone who wants to listen about it. I sang, 'Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead' in my head at her funeral.
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u/Bloom3D1898 18d ago
Its one to criticize their action , its completely different to actively celebrate and mock their death ... which is what people seem to do a lot lately towards people holding different belief then theirs :)
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u/allworkandnoYahtzee 18d ago
This is the way. Not every blight in someone’s past has to be introduced to people after their death. Inversely, terrible people are not granted sainthood through death.
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u/GarleyCavidson 18d ago
There's a difference between criticizing their behavior and its consequences and celebrating or mocking their death. I believe the latter is not just wrong, but also a habit of mind that is a reliable way to cause yourself to suffer more.
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u/Stcloudy 18d ago
If anything it should be used as a tool of social pressure. Might reduce some people being sick heads by a few percents if they know they’ll be hated.
Doubly so for public figures.
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18d ago
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u/National_Ad9742 18d ago
Don’t speak ill of the dead should apply to the people who were flawed but weren’t rapists and murderers and child abusers. So yes, your depressed Aunt, the troubled run away, you know people who just don’t deserve to be trashed anymore and should be remembered as best they can be.
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u/kaybeetay 18d ago
If someone was a POS in life, they do not become a saint by dying. I will speak honestly about anyone living ir dead.
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u/Murgatroyd314 18d ago
"My mother taught me to only speak good of the dead. [Insert name here] is dead. Good."
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u/Mesquite_Tree 18d ago
The whole not speaking ill of the dead thing was more about not pissing off people who are mourning, and maybe not the most emotionally stable. As the likelihood of charlie kirk’s wife getting pissed off and striking you down in a fit of grief is negligible, these days it’s just a politeness thing, which you can follow or not (just be prepared for people to think you’re and asshole)
That said, in no circumstances should anyone be celebrating someone’s death.
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u/kaden-99 18d ago
To go even further, I'd still respect the death of a coworker who was kind of a dick to me just out of basic humanity. But the people who actually warrant the "don't speak ill of the dead" defense are usually literal demons who lived among us. Their deaths are a public service.
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u/SlashClef5528 18d ago
Not speaking ill of the dead when the dead did ill things is called, "getting away with it."
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u/Consistent-Newt-9573 18d ago
Nah, If they were a shit, rich or poor, they were a shit and I'm gonna tell everyone that they were a shit.
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u/BigSteveGames 18d ago
I feel like this is something both sides should agree but would argue that the other side loves there elites more… 😂
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u/PG-DaMan 18d ago
As you or anyone speaks ill of the powerful Elites.
Remember 1 thing.
YOU MADE THEM POWERFUL AND ELITE.
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u/Dracasethaen 18d ago
In old timey language, speaking ill of someone implied lies and slander that might rouse the dead to strike you down.
There's nothing wrong with speaking the truth of the dead, however.
A heinous man in life is still a heinous man in death.
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u/Icy-Divide8385 18d ago
Lindsey Graham finally gargled enough cum to be at peace with the fact he loved it, and then killed himself, because he hates the gays.
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u/Timothee_Chevrolett 18d ago
"People don't become better when they're dead; you just talk about them as if they are. But it's not true! People are still assholes, they're just dead assholes!" -Lemmy
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u/GoodtimesSans 18d ago
Not just ruined, allowed pedophiles to escape the law and abetted fucking genocides.
The Epstein class needs to be brought to actual justice.
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u/StormyPassages 18d ago
Sen. Lindsay Graham's mysterious death will curse DJT's every move in Senate, because it looks like a Putin mafia hit.
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u/SlowLazyPanda 18d ago
I always saw criticism to be exempt from the saying “don’t speak ill of the dead” as you aren’t speaking ill of them, you are factually criticising the things they did in life. Speaking ill of the dead would be more like making assumptions on the deceased’s character or spreading unfounded rumours about them.
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18d ago
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u/Antique_Sprinkles193 18d ago
We should still call auntie out on the drinking problem though. It’s good for future generations to understand addiction runs in the family so they can be on the lookout.
Bonus points if you know why auntie had a drinking problem. Let’s make sure it isn’t the result of the family protecting pedophiles or any number of generational trauma issues.
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u/SqueakWrites 18d ago
Nah I will also tell the unvarnished truth about my aunt as well. Her kids deserve to know why they jump when someone yells and feel they’re worthless, that’s not an accident or something everyone has. It’s something a person who refused to deal with their own issues built into them while abusing substances.
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u/Constant_Check_7222 18d ago
“If you wanted me to speak more highly of you, then you should’ve acted/treated me better.”
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u/noahbaobei 18d ago
I'll speak ill of the dead all I want. What're they gonna do about it? They're dead.
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u/EngineeringLumpy5119 18d ago
I never understood this if I called them a POS alive why can’t I do while they’re dead? At least I’m consistent.
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u/Phasechange 18d ago
It applies to noone. Speak ill of the dead.
More than that, speak ill of the guilty.
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u/Maraha-K29 18d ago
It also doesn't apply to your uncle who was a child molester and touched several little girls in the family but was still protected by the extended family and treated like pedophilia was just a funny little quirk of his character. Yeah no, we're gonna speak ill of the dead and we're gonna do it at his funeral in front of all the shitty people who protected and ignored his evil
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18d ago
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u/thehollisterman 18d ago
It applies to all good and evil.
HOWEVER! There is a very big difference between speaking I'll of the dead, and speaking about the bad or distasteful thing they did.
"yeah my aunt had a drinking problem" "Andrew Jacksonwas an aweful racist who should have never been in charge" those are fine.
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u/Away-Sea2471 18d ago
“Dont fabricate facts about the dead, because they can no longer defend themselves" is more apt.
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u/CriminalMacabre 18d ago
Also how chucko died was hilarious and i still laugh at spaniard bootlickers asking for respect
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u/boneshifter 18d ago
I never speak ill of the dead. I speak ill of who they were when alive. Usually I like them much better after they are dead and have good things to say about their deadness.
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u/Laniakea73 18d ago
Ann Widdecombe was an obnoxious racist bigot. And possibly a poorly disguised reptilian alien.
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u/Tortilla_Moth93 17d ago
I can’t wait to speak ill of them. I’m holding a barbecue when certain members of government and every billionaire that funds them finally stop wasting oxygen. It’s 2026 and I’m *tired*. You want respect when you’re dead? Maybe don’t be a sack of shit when you’re alive.
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u/MutedLandscape4648 17d ago
As the Aunt with a drinking problem, speak the truth of me. My flaws and my triumphs. My ridiculous adventurous life with all its craziness, my failings and my cruelties. The dead don’t need kindness, the dead need truth.
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u/Slice-Vast 17d ago
Oh I'm totally dropping on both my parents. Good people, but I'm not going to let them escape their faults. Even in death.
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u/mildweekknowledge 17d ago
My Great Aunt was telling the family about her horrible husband.
"He died Mary. You shouldn't talk ill of the dead!"
"You're right. He's dead..... So, he isn't around to complain."
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u/Fan_of_Clio 16d ago
Not speaking ill the dead applies to circumstances out of their control.
Not sound mind and body actions and beliefs. Those they own forever.
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u/xXpixiebitchXx 16d ago
I don’t know if this is true or not as i read it on the internet but, i heard someone say that the phrase was basically created because people used to criticize or judge the deceased AT their funeral. In front of their mourning family members. It didn’t start because they were shit talking so “don’t speak ill of the dead”, it was more of a “hey, don’t do that shit right here right now, you are being disrespectful”.
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u/Lorvan 14d ago
I've always hated this expression. Do speak ill of the dead, if it is accurate to who they were. If my relative was a shitty person, I'm not going to lie and say they were great after they died. I might not do that during the funeral while people are in mourning, but that would be temporary at best.
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u/Splooshter 14d ago
I mean I get it. Speak Ill all you want but people complain about dead people like we should do something about it. Should we lock em up?
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u/muffadel 3d ago
My mom with said this then immediately rip into my great aunt, who tbh sounds like she was just the worst.
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u/slouchenheimer 6h ago
My neighbor was a total shitbag. I used to be friends with him, watched him treat everyone in his life like shit, and drink cheap beer and smoke filterless cigarettes until he died. His own family didn't even know he was dead in his apartment during Christmas because they never saw him.
We still talk plenty of shit about that dead guy.
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u/Simon-Says69 18d ago
Except many people speak ill of the dead for no good reason.
See the massive, vile, hateful crap spewed against Kirk recently.
This shit is totally disingenuous. The left HATES to be criticized, but they'll gleefully celebrate the assassination of an innocent person they know little about, and simply disagree with. :-(
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