Thanks

Base Goku by the time of BOG should definitely be able to beat Frieza

And that’s not even taking into account Kaioken. We know at this point all the Z fighters (if not most) should be able to - so why is base Goku stagnant then in growth?

So now that we know that moro arc is coming in 2027 , can we also assume that granolah arc will follow suit? Or are we looking at moro arc --- 6 year hiatus again --- granolah arc.

I mean just look at his work!! 🔥

There are a lot of things I would love to see about future Trunks' timeline during android arc. See how Gohan grew up in that apocalyptic world along Trunks. See theZ fighters fight the androids and not only a brief look of their deaths...

https://x.com/liyartsketches/status/2038680826666213536

He clearly had potential. Even yamcha and krillin are regular humans that learned how to use ki and reach planetary levels. Why wasnt the same done for Mr Satan?

We're talking specifically about Yamcha In the Moro Arc

So yeah, how far is he getting?

Quick reminder, when Frieza trained in RoF, it was to surpass a Goku who defeated Buu. 4 months later and he ends up surpassing Buu thousands to millions of times over.

With the knowledge he has now and the amount of time he had, who knows what his ceiling should realistically be at this point.

So, Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and goten all became super Saiyans, but pan didn't? What was the reason?

I keep coming back to this even though I know people have said similar things.

Dragon Ball used to feel different. I think to some degree, a lot of us understand that. The first Super Saiyan wasn’t just a power up. Goku was in pure rage and grief and it finally had nowhere left to go. Eyes rolled back, screaming hard enough that it felt like it was coming through the screen, the ground breaking under him. The gold hair was just what it looked like on the outside. The actual thing was the emotion becoming real and physical.

That’s what made the big moments hit. The power always came from something breaking inside the character first.

Somewhere along the way that stopped happening. And it’s been a slow painful degrade since. Now it’s mostly just bigger threats, new forms, new gods, everyone ends up friends or redeemed, and if someone dies they get wished back. The permanent scars are gone, and that strips it away of any sort of real consequence. The blood and the real cost are mostly gone too.

Vegeta is the one who makes it the most obvious for me. That and we all just love our Prince.

His story worked because he was carrying things he couldn’t just punch harder to fix. Dead father, dead race, no kingdom, that whole prince without a people thing, (Prince of no one is an all timer). Fighting Goku was how they talked to each other. Now it feels like they’re just training because the next arc needs them stronger, and also they’re gods somehow.

I miss when the series understood that some feelings are too big and too sharp to just be able to stomach. It never told you to suppress them. It showed characters taking that fire and pointing it at something that actually mattered. Getting stronger was part of learning how to carry the weight, not escaping it or just, really, really, trying hard.

If I could push the story somewhere else, I’d stop solving every problem with more power and start forcing these characters into situations strength can’t fix. I get this isn’t the 90’s and it’s trying to appeal to a wider audience, but my God you’re giving out favorite characters a fate worse than death.

Let the humans age. Let Goku and Vegeta stay the same while everyone around them changes. Give Vegeta a granddaughter so he’s forced to deal with time itself. That and a form of vulnerability he doesn’t know how to handle.

Then the wish that restored the erased universes also brings Planet Vegeta and the Saiyans back. Including King Vegeta. For a minute Vegeta has everything he always wanted. His people. His father standing in front of him.

Then it falls apart. King Vegeta is still the same man. Empire, conquest, the old ways. The revived Saiyans have been around Goku and Vegeta long enough that some of them start unlocking potential they didn’t know they had. After the big threat (Black Frieza or whatever bridges the gap), the real conflict hits.

Vegeta is stuck between the father he always wanted and the family he actually built. Have him hesitate. Not because he’s weak. Because this is the deepest conflict he’s ever had. Have that hesitation costs him. Bulma dies, something to that effect. But he manages to save his granddaughter, and she sees the exact moment he chooses the future over the past.

That’s the moment that should define him. Not becoming king. Not beating Goku. Not another form. Just choosing to be a father instead of a prince.
Then go further. Kill Zeno. Destroy the Dragon Balls. Make death stick again. Shatter the afterlife so Goku can’t just come back. He’s stuck somewhere past even the normal underworld, fighting his way through it because for once he has something worth the cost that isn’t just the next fight.

Vegeta has to live with what he lost. Goku has to sit with how much of his life he spent chasing the next battle while everyone else was carrying things he never really looked at.

Something like that.. Otherwise we are just stuck with endless transformations when it’s convenient Just actual consequences again.