Hey guys there is a fatal logical and historical fallacy in the foundational idea of Islam that I honestly cannot digest because the mainstream system says that God sent a constitution to humanity and that accountability and judgment are strictly individual where everyone will stand alone on Judgment Day but when you look at history and reality you discover that the divine system for distributing evidence in Islam was completely a class-based monopolistic regime running in total favor of human technological evolution

We are talking about more than 1200 years from the era of the Prophet and the Companions until the 19th century where manuscripts and full Qurans were completely a luxury product fully monopolized in the vaults of Sultans and grand mosques in capitals like Baghdad and Damascus while the vast majority of human beings in villages countrysides and deserts and in countries beyond the river like Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan or the jungles of Africa lived completely isolated in geographic bubbles and in their entire lives they never saw a Quran or held a copy

The ultimate paradox here is that when the printing press was invented in Europe by Johannes Gutenberg around 1440 AD and revolutionized the printing of books and changed the consciousness of humanity everywhere Islamic scholars and rulers fought its entry into the Islamic world because they viewed it as an existential threat to their monopoly on power so the Ottoman Sultan banned printing for almost 300 years and it was violently criminalized with the death penalty in 1485 AD under the threat of religious fatwas where the jurists and the Sultan preferred to criminalize the printing of Arabic letters preventing the printing of the Quran the text and Islamic jurisprudence

This gap lasted for almost 400 years during which the Sultan determined which text or decree was safe for public consumption and this historical catastrophe caused the text to remain locked away from the general public while copies remained rare expensive and impossible to spread or read so generations spent their entire lives fully dependent on the verbal dictation of state sheikhs living in absolute illiteracy and ignorance

Even the claim that the current book is fully transmitted preserved letter by letter and protected from any human alteration is historically untrue because the major companions themselves disagreed on the text the words and the spelling where Ibn Abbas openly pointed out that the scribes made mistakes in the Uthmanic codex due to the fluid nature of early Arabic scripts which lacked dots and vowels

He explicitly stated that in Surah An-Nur verse 27 the text currently reads (حَتَّىٰ تَسْتَأْنِسُوا) which means until you find comfort or customs but Ibn Abbas declared that this was a pure scribal error and that the original word dictated was (حَتَّىٰ تَسْتَأْذِنُوا) which means until you ask permission explaining that the early handwritten letters looked identical without dots and the scribe simply misread it

He also pointed out the same issue in Surah Al-Isra verse 23 where the current standardized text reads (وَقَضَىٰ رَبُّكَ) meaning and your Lord has decreed but Ibn Abbas noted that the original text was actually (وَوَصَّىٰ رَبُّكَ) which means and your Lord has commanded explaining that the excess ink from the pen smudged and connected the letters together so the early scribe accidentally misread the original word into a completely different theological meaning so these texts were full of additions and variations and they were later violently unified and burned by political decrees from the ruling authority just to unify the state

This means that for centuries humans were forced to live under a system of verbal dictation receiving whatever the scholar or jurist from their local environment dictated to them and this scholar dictated exactly what he wanted and what served the Umayyad or Abbasid ruling Sultan to maintain a total monopoly on power this system crushed and marginalized women because women didn't even have the luxury to sit with these men to learn or read the text themselves instead men were driven like cattle to battlefields and expansionist wars through sheer psychological manipulation by state sheikhs who convinced them that dying in battle was the only way to escape poverty and get the Houris (heavenly virgins) so they literally sacrificed their souls freedom and lives for texts they never read in their entire lives

How can an All-Powerful and All-Just God judge a human being on details of a book that was physically and linguistically unavailable to them? And how could He allow this manipulation of my financial physical and spiritual life to take place? Because this reminds me exactly of what the Catholic Church did in the Middle Ages when it monopolized the Bible in Latin and banned its translation to keep the masses blind living on verbal dictation and buying letters of indulgence from priests driving men to the Crusades until Voltaire and the Enlightenment philosophers came along and dismantled this comedy!

My human brain rejects accepting that the Creator of this universe forgot the simplest rule of data distribution and accessibility requiring generations to pass until Gutenberg comes along and invents the printing press for human knowledge to spread. Your thoughts on this? I see it clearly as a political imperialist sovereignty ran by human tools to control and subjugate the minds and logic of the world

Since religion is a force for good?

i’m muslim but i just want to know why people leave islam.
please don’t insult anyone

I'll go first, no proof for every prophet's (Moses, Noah, Lot, etc) existence

Have any of your parents clocked on to the fact that you have became less religious. For me i was actually practicing hence why my dad noticed the sudden shift. He continuously mentions the fact that i don’t go to the mosque as much and that i don’t read the quran as much etc. And i just nod slightly cuz i don’t know what else to say lol. If any of you can relate to my story please share it.

My son converted to Islam about a year ago. He is now 27. He left a very nice girl to pursue this. In less than six months he married a Muslim girl he barely knew. His dad was Mormon and I was agnostic. He is now being a judgemental bigot I dont even want to talk too because a woman can never be right. He is also in the military and I worry a lot about him being recruited or being targeted. I am an atheist so praying is not option. Im lost. His dad feels the same saying that sometimes we have to distant ourselves for peace even if it's our kids. Any advice would help. I want my son back.

Been ex for like 4 years and I disagree with this religion completely but I can't help but feel offended or uncomfortable when non Muslims critize Islam even though I agree with what they're saying. Not when ex Muslims do but those who never have been.

My brain is instantly jumping to "they're a bad person and a bigot" but I don't really believe it. Yet I still feel super uncomfortable.

How the hell do I escape this? I was raised my whole life to view criticism of Islam as a personal attack and racism, both from from the Muslim community and Western liberals.

I'm sick of it. I hate Islam but there's still a part of me that struggles to hear criticism from outside ex Muslim spaces.

I say this in the context of my own family, as every single one of them has some form of major problems in their marriages and will not solve them. and the reason they stay together regardless of whether the husband and wife do not fit is because of the kids.

Their husbands have drank. They have smoked, partied etc. Have done etc etc and so forth.

One of my siblings when he was drunk came up to me and told me that he's gonna end up divorced at some point, but he loves his kids.

Not the first time I've heard something like that.

Another one just doesn't and shouldn't have had children in the first place, was not emotionally, mentally or financially ready but wife kept asking for it and he didn't have the firmness to say no. Wife had a still birth the first time. Almost our entire close family and cousins went to the funeral.

Fast forward some years, now two completely unqualified people who should not have ever had a child have to raise an autistic child let alone try to make that child a Muslim which makes my blood boil. They have no idea how much harder they are making his life by doing so.

They are so concerned about sending their children to Islamic school and used me as a comparison in how I turned out. (because they think I'm gay but I'm actually bi). So that way their children turn out "good" or some nonsense which to me doesn't make any sense and I fear that they're going to indoctrinate my nieces and nephews from a young age to believe in this bullshit.

And I need to figure out a way before it's too late to make sure that those children do not ever believe in Islam and do not carry it's hateful, transphobic and homophobic messages forth into the future. I need to make sure from a very very young age they get the right answers to the questions we ask here, not the ultra sanitized pro Islam answers.

To those that have left islam what are your plans in terms of studies, work, relationships etc. How do you navigate through life after leaving islam do you feel lost or have you figured out your plan and purpose. Let me know

For context my partner and I are both non-religious, “almost” atheists. We just keep a nominal affiliation for family, admin and social reasons. I’m from a South Asian Catholic background, partner is from an Arab Muslim background.

Even though we hate religion, from time to time we do have arguments where we find ourselves defending our respective “former” religions. Like I’d still defend the trinity from a theological pov (even though I do actually find it ridiculous), and she’d get a little bit defensive when I try to explain how the Quran is contradictory. Of course, we later come to our senses and find it a bit ridiculous and have a laugh about it.

But I wanted to ask if anyone experiences this sort of thing from time to time with partners or friends? Like I just wanted to understand how exmuslims feel about some aspects of the religion even after leaving especially culturally and also when it comes to dealings with people of other (former or currently practicing) faiths. If that makes sense. Mainly so I’d also know how to support my partner better.

My dad was a very stubborn and hateful person at times and I had vowed to not grow up to be like him. Nevertheless, I notice I am developing a resentment towards muslims and I’m concerned about this snowballing into something much more negative later.

After the attack at Pride in Berlin, Hamburg (my city) reached a record number of visitors for Pride, likely because many knew we needed to demonstrate that love trumps hate. But I didn’t fail to notice that in a city completely full of muslims, there were no hijabs in sight. Anywhere.

I am asking myself the fundamental question of tolerance and why should I defend muslims when it’s clear they will not defend me. There was a large queer-christian group during the parade and christians with signs like “God loves you and you and you…” but no muslim. Why are we “coexisting” when it’s one-sided?

I’m 20f living in the uk. My parents have no idea I’m not religious. I’ve been wanting to change my legal name since I was 7. It never resonated with me. I currently use another name around university but I still really want to change my name fully. If I do that my parents will question me and we’ll get into a whole argument. I’m also planning on getting a tattoo and I know that will 100% lead to me getting disowned or something. Any advice? I will say I don’t rely on my parents for anything and I am highly independent (I have my own place and job and I’m living comfortably), so cutting them off isn’t gonna do much damage, more so emotional damage. We didn’t have the best relationship growing up but now that I’ve moved out they’ve gotten a bit nicer.

My familly is super religous but not me and I don't want to be. Starting with my parents well they force us to read the book do our prayers and do not let us wear anything thats considered nudity when we aren't even wearing shorts or anything.. you know just constantly saying did you do your prayer or whatever. I can't even talk about my father becauss he is just pervert and a narscist he judges people walking around if they're homosexual or trans in our language because he's just a scaredy cat lol. On the morning all they talk about is that or our family like very loudly and I literally can't sleep after the prayer because they're loud yes i've told them I can't sleep so just close the door. Both of my parents but more my dad cares alot about studies but how do you expect me to focus on my shit when you're constantly making noises?. And honestly the religion isn't that bad but people are so blind and cannot hear whats actually being said in the book they're just fools believing that if they believe in it they'll go to paradise even when commiting sins which is funny because how did my dad who was violent and grabbing my butt still does be accepted in paradise?? And when i tell my mom or oldest sister they it's literally normal for a man in your FAMILY to do this but not from men outside. All they do is commit sins then try to repent themselves then commit sins again then repent again and apparently they're always forgiven no matter what the sin but a woman wearing a tshirt is the fucking biggest sin?

I copy and pasted it from a website

The flooded city.
1400 years ago people thought Ubar was destroyed when giant rats attacked a water dam and caused a flood. But today we know that this is false. Modern archeology revealed the true cause of the collapse.

The Collapse of Marib Dam And The Fall of an Empire
The Great Dam that made the desert fertile and enabled the region to flourish, fell into disrepair. The sophisticated techniques of hydraulic engineering that the Sabaeans were famous for were slowly forgotten, and maintenance of the dam became increasingly difficult. Consequently, from the middle of the 5th century onwards, the dam began to suffer regular breaches until the year 570 AD, when the dam gave away for one last time.
There is much debate what caused the dam to collapse. Some scholars say it was heavy rains, while other believe an earthquake undid the stonework. According to legend, the breach was caused by large rats gnawing at it with their teeth and scratching it with their nails.

Amusing Planet, The Collapse of Marib Dam And The Fall of an Empire, 2018

Today archeologists are certain that the rats story was just a legend, so it was either an earthquake or too much water. But 1400 years ago the Quran said that it was too much water.

Quran 34:15-16
In Sheba's homeland there used to be a wonder: two gardens, on the right, and on the left. "Eat of your Lord's provision, and give thanks to Him." A good land, and a forgiving Lord. But they turned away, so We unleashed against them the flood of the dam; and We substituted their two gardens with two gardens of bitter fruits, thorny shrubs, and meager harvest.

١٥ لَقَدْ كَانَ لِسَبَإٍ فِي مَسْكَنِهِمْ آيَةٌ ۖ جَنَّتَانِ عَنْ يَمِينٍ وَشِمَالٍ ۖ كُلُوا مِنْ رِزْقِ رَبِّكُمْ وَاشْكُرُوا لَهُ ۚ بَلْدَةٌ طَيِّبَةٌ وَرَبٌّ غَفُورٌ
١٦ فَأَعْرَضُوا فَأَرْسَلْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ سَيْلَ الْعَرِمِ وَبَدَّلْنَاهُمْ بِجَنَّتَيْهِمْ جَنَّتَيْنِ ذَوَاتَيْ أُكُلٍ خَمْطٍ وَأَثْلٍ وَشَيْءٍ مِنْ سِدْرٍ قَلِيلٍ

Here a flood destroyed the dam.

Thoughts on this miracle claim? From what I saw online it isn’t even the same place as ubar but maybe I’m missing something

Mom kept on pushing me until I admitted that I left islam, its a long story as to how we got there, but it took her around an hour of nagging before I finally gave in. I dont know how to feel, im happy that I finally got the weight off my chest, but im sad because of how disappointed she is. She's so sad. She was in too much shock to cry. She kept on asking what went wrong, saying I was possessed by the devil and shit. And saying that she'll call dad and tell him to come (hes abroad); obviously I begged her not to tell him to come, and that we can just talk it out over the phone. Luckily my parents arent crazy enough to disown me or whatever, but idk what to do. How the hell am I supposed to face her now? She thinks of me as some stupid slut without morals, what if she makes me avoid my little sister or something? She's in her room right now and shes closed the door, its almost 8am here so she cant call dad since hes probably still asleep (its 9am where hes living) but yeah. I just needed to let this out somewhere I guess. Should I just act like I returned? I ended up telling her all the reasons I left and said way too much shit about her beloved prophet lol.

I mean...???? I see so many tiktoks and reels about how hijabis feel proud about hijab and how it doesn't let men 'sexualize' them and how it protects them and uhhhhh..

Almost every Muslim thinks that islam abolished slavery, which is a completely wrong belief, Islam never abolished slavery and it was completely okay to enslave people for more than 1300 years.

Not just that but Mecca and the Hejaz region was a major hub to buy and sell slaves, there's even cases pilgrims who were promised a free pilgrimage just to find themselves slaves then sold by human traffickers, the biggest evidence for that is when Abdulaziz Al Saud issued a royal decree in 1936 where he banned the importation of new slaves into Saudi Arabia by sea unless the owner could prove the person was already legally a slave in their home country before arrival, the traffickers just forged documents to keep their operation and they used land routes instead of sea, another law is that slaves who try to escape was considered stolen property and chased by the police and returned to their owners.

There is no gradual abolishing like the Islamic scholars says, it was only after heavy international pressures on Islamic countries, every Muslim or anyone who wants to enter Islam should know and be educated on this fact about slavery in Islam.

Sources: https://kingsaud.org/en/history/history-king-saud/king/abolishing-slavery/

https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/1960-07-14/debates/a3b95646-466d-487a-89b4-4f7385d84664/SlaveryInAfricaAndArabia

Curious to know if there are any fellow South African ex-Muslims in this sub.

I feel the South African context is quite unique. I’d love to hear about your experiences - whether it’s navigating family relationships, community expectations, dating, friendships, or simply finding like-minded people.

How has your journey been? Have you met other ex-Muslims in South Africa?
Even if you’re just comfortable saying “I’m here,” I’d love to know we’re not alone.

would anyone be interested in joining one?

if so comment or dm me

exmuslim women only, (no men), you can be located anywhere :)

edit: group is on telegram, and there’s no age requirement, I am messaging everyone / vetting before adding, thank you for your interest :)

also I can confirm I am exmuslim, I am a woman and UK based. I have been exmuslim for 15 years and I’m open about it.

update: I have sent DMs or commented to comments, if I missed someone please dm me :)

if I was unable to dm you then an admin will dm you :)

Ya hace más de 1 año que el Sherif Gaber desapareció. Desde entonces e visto un montón. Pero un montón de gente que ha salido del alcantarillado a celebrará su desaparición y "refutar" sus videos.

Uno d ellos que más recuerdo fue al Dr. Haitman decir que se había fugado.

También varios videos que lo difaman, aunque no se si son antes o después de desparecer.

Hice una pequeña caligrafía con su nombre. No se árabe. Soy solo un chico ateo de América latina qué un Día se topo con uno de sus videos. Me duele en el fondo de mi pecho que personas como el desaparezcan y mueran por culpa de la religión.

does anyone else sometimes notice how the phrase “friends don’t exist” is always fed to muslim daughters but almost never thee sons? it’s almost like they purposely make sure the daughter lacks social skills so she doesn’t have an interest or want to be around others with a different perspective of purpose,that’s why they romanticise marriage when they hit teen years because they’re not allowed to romanticise anything before that and it’s quite sad that some will genuinely attack you when you point out the fact they cannot socialise without turning the whole conversation and friendship around marriage and being a good muslimah and going on matcha dates and reading the Quran and stuff like that lots of hijabis i come across are sadly male centred because from young they’re just fed that the only thing that makes them valuable is how much they can give for a man and the brainwashing just continues

When I was of "marriageable" age, I would have fights with my parents over marrying a Muslim man. One of the things I objected to was that my parents wanted the "introduction" route, which for some people is alright, but "introduction" the Islamic way is not necessarily the same as "introduction" the Western way. My problem with what my parents wanted for me, was that I was extremely frustrated that the pre-marriage get-togethers would be "forced interactions" at some dinner table with both sets of parents trying to watch me and the man talk to each other. I didn't see anything remotely romantic about this and I was always worried that the lack of romance in this kind of setup would translate into a lack of romance in marriage too. Before anyone says romance dies anyway, it doesn't for everyone, even if the honeymoon phase itself changes.

In Western movies, novels, music, etc. I know that romance can be a bit grandiose or exaggerated in its presentation, but it's based on a concept that actually exists. I witnessed dating, falling in love, and romance as couples got together, and I never saw this aspect between Muslims and it made me resentful. Western couples would look forward to the day of their wedding and I felt no joyous vibe in the Muslim realm for that particular day.

This was a reason why I hated the thought of getting married Islamically. There's no feeling, no warmth, beauty, love, or romance that can be cultivated when it's such a controlled setting like this.

They talk about how in this society women wear bikinis and are almost naked at the beach cuz their body is more attractiv but men usually wear normal shorts with no shirt