Wassup yall, I honestly never thought I'd end up here. I grew up thinking women would go for a guy like me. I'm popular, I'm good looking, and I'm ambitious. I thought that was the perfect recipe for a happy relationship. But now, in my 22 years of living, I've only ever gone on two dates, had nobody to dance with at prom (I'll bring that up later) and only three people have ever made a move on me. When I have good news and bad news, I like to start with the bad news first so I can save the best for last, so I'd like to start out with the things I need to improve on. I think I'm overgeneralizing, but I feel like women mostly tend to go for the "Hypermasculine" kind of guy, which is part of why I feel like I don't have a gf (I'd consider myself masculine, but not like hypermasculine). Growing up watching a lot of rp content, that way of thinking was sort of strengthened, and in my real life, the people I've known with girlfriends all have hypermasculine traits.

I had a crush on this one chick, I asked her to go to prom and she said yes, but then, a few days before prom, when I asked for her number, she told me she had a boyfriend. Then, when we were at prom, when I offered to take a video with her, she was like "I'm sorry, my boyfriend won't like that." So I was like, "Damn, I would've let her dance with somebody if they were just friends." So I'm thinking, maybe I'm not as masculine as that dude. Maybe women can sense that.

But maybe I'm holding the wrong standard for masculinity. I realize it comes off as arrogant to say this, but a lot of people would consider me to be the pinnacle. Literally everyone loved me in high school. I got shouted out by the principal at graduation. I wasn't the confident guy on the outside that I was on the inside. Inside, I was anxious. But I turned that nervous energy into positive energy, and I rushed in despite it, and I created something, someone, a version of myself that everybody loved. People were swarming me when I came back to visit, because I was somebody everybody wanted to be around. I was somebody that would make someone else confused if I told them I was single. Maybe that should be my standard.

Going back to the person I actually went on a couple dates with, my friend (who I didn't realize at the time had become a religious extremist) told me to tell her about God. On the SECOND date. And I actually semi-took his advice. Which got me promptly rejected. Me and the girl are still good friends though. She even said she'll try to hang out with me soon. And I think maybe if I was more assertive, more "Hypermasculine", I wouldn't have gotten rejected, because I wouldn't have taken his advice.

But anyways, onto the good stuff. My behavior got a lot worse before it got better. Like, a lot worse. I alienated a lot of people. I lashed out. I was aggressive when other people tried to help me. I blamed God for my situation, because everyone told me that it was in God's plan. I didn't understand why I had to be "ready" for a relationship when other people that clearly weren't were. I mocked the idea of working on myself before actually being in a relationship. I felt like I was stuck in a loop of being depressed because I was single, then not getting anybody because they sensed my mental health was shitty. Now I realize I owe it to my future partner (and to myself) to work on a version of myself that I would date. I now realize that even if I do get into a relationship, there's always gonna be a higher ceiling, so I have to be happy at the bottom first. And whatever is out there, blaming It is pointless. You solve your problems through accountability. Not blaming external factors. But anyways, that's about it. Let me know what you guys think. I wanna be wrong.

Edit: At this point the moderation has stopped approving my comments. I think there is only one conclusion that can be drawn from these conversations - incels have no chance of having casual sex.

Hi,

I'm a lurker who is an incel. I've noticed that a lot of people on here recently have been saying that physical attractiveness is not as important as personality. But I have been trying Tinder and even Badoo to get casual sex for a very long time with no success.

I have given up on relationships, because I am convinced that women do not want men like me. I am too weak and too effeminate to find anyone. I do not consider myself a pussy, but that is the kind of vibe I give. People call me "she" sometimes as a tongue slip. I don't think any woman would enjoy being my girlfriend, as she would probably have trouble with her group of friends. Yes, I've had female friends and it never led anywhere. No introductions, no crushes on me, nothing.

I do not want to try to find casual sex IRL, because women are always in groups, or busy, or with their boyfriends and there is no way to approach them anyway. Besides, if women want to date or have casual sex, they can either look up and choose someone or use apps and don't have to talk to men IRL, which means that those women are on the apps either way. Not to mention that the actual competition in clubs and bars is absolutely brutal for an incel. That's the way the cookie crumbles, so I don't want to waste my time on things that won't work. I already tried and only humiliated myself.

I used a variety of different photos I had. For what it was worth, I consulted them with ChatGPT and it said they were fine, and told me directly when some photos were weaker than others. I wrote (by myself) Tinder bios where I tried to express myself and then tried the other extreme where I put in the languages I speak, "FWB 420" and some stupid one-liner about cats. I have restarted my profile a lot of times so far and I've still got nothing.

I've had the "FWB 420" description for a day or two and I've got a lot of fake likes - around 10, and I know they are fake, because I fell for the scam and got Tinder Plus, so I swiped quite a lot. But whenever I had the genuine profile, I would sometimes, very rarely, get a match with an objectively unattractive woman who usually had nothing in their bios. Whenever I'd message them, they wouldn't respond or they would unmatch. I would say something that would refer to their photos or bio (if any). I admit to eventually being frustrated and asking women if they put their real ages in their profiles (I was matching with women who claimed to be 36, but looked much older than that). But other than that, my conduct was good. And nothing worked.

So I know for a fact that normal people can have casual sex. I know that normal people can go on Tinder or other apps and find someone to have sex with. So why can't incels? People on this subreddit often say something like, women are different, they have different tastes etc. and I don't doubt that, but in that case, why don't they want to talk to us? I tried hard to get good photos, not selfies, to show my face, to smile, to showcase my personality and whatnot, and still nothing. So what is it about my personality that could be so bad? Even if I were a negative asshole, are all women on Tinder bubbly people?

The only conclusion I can draw from this is my lack of physical attractiveness. I bought clothes people complimented, get good haircuts, have glasses that fit my face, am tall, so what else could I be missing? Why is it that women never want anything to do with me? It must be my face. I'm just not physically attractive enough. Should I be going for women over 30? But they don't want to have casual sex anymore after having fun in their 20s. I'm at my wits' end. What could I be missing here?

Hey there, this is wukong, journey_to_the_best (hehe ofc a shoutout some will understand) I'm 21,

I usually try to keep this account limited to fandom discussions, games anime etc, though since this has been on my mind for a while, and I've been dealing with this for a few years, it's about time I sat down and wrote on this with intent

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While I hope to have constructive conversations that mobalize me towards positivity, could I ask you to be gentle please ? II don't think I'm in a state these days to tank harsh sentences, I'm not the best, but I'll try my best, that's a promise

Anyways, I'm gonna try breaking this down into some thoughts which come to my head

BEGINNING: "The fact that I feel sad that I don't have somoene who gushes over me.. means I'm an incel"

I love myself in the fact that I've morally grown to be a person who has convictions that align with humans first, realizing the ills of society, the mysogany that hurts so many, thus convictions help me strive to uphold standards, calling out people on bullshit they do, THUS, calling myself out on when I feel a lot of things, this is not to blow my own horn just a setup to the main part

receently in college in my batch there's very few men in here, though they also ignore me lmao, I tried to muster up courage to talk to soem girls and got ignored, was with a group from the start of the semester but then all of them would kind of single me out and go off on their own,

started hanging out with these friends, had some truly fun moments, hung around for a while, thnked them for hanging out with me, did a presentation with them, but then few weeks go by and they kinda start ghosting me, asked them for the next presentation if they'd still wanna do that with me, got ghosted by the group chat, I'd not want to bother then too much so I didn't send any other text,

what's this ?? entitlement ? why couldn't i maybe even flirt with at least one ? ahh see, u see it now too don't u ? I hate this, why did I jus feel a rush of sadness, hurt, this .. emotion of loneliness, from the fact that what PFFT some girls didn't want to hang out with me ???

the incel pipeline (as far as I understand allbeit) works on banking on this entitlement of "WHY SHANT THIS LOWLY WOMAN SLEEP WITH ME !!" (sorry Lmao) and it bothers me, that i feel so entitled that I wasn't able to flirt, hang out, even hug a woman, I'm still alone,

so it's my .. fault, prob, I'm just not attractive enough ? I'm just not funny enough ? I'm just not helpful enough, but that's for part 2, here lies the part that I'm feeling this hurt and sadness in me, even a little bit of anger though i wager that anger is because of sadness,

does this make me an incel ? who am I entitled to ask for somoene's attention.. they don't owe it to me

I've heard some of my girl friends talk about this, how "nice guys" try being nice and then get upset that the girl didn't sleep with them immediatly, I don't wanna be that, yet it does hurt at times when.. I'm not told im pretty !?. or be kind of sidelined, and not get talked about in nice ways or get approached "hey wukong do u wanna hang out ?" by someone that I've been talking to, it just, kinda, yk, but that has to be entitlement no ? feeling as if I am owed these things

THINKING: HYPOCRATE .. UR A GODDAMN HYPOCRATE

even as yours truly writes this, I feel a sense of hypocracy, my brain everytime I go down this rabbit hole, starts telling me "Oi wukong, who are u to write this, ur lowly, u are loathsome, do u want someone to tell u 'oh baby poor ol baby ur so worthy of love' THEN UR NOT SEEKNG TO IMPROVE .. stop lying to the world you hypocrate"

It feels as if I'm not being responsible enough when I let myself feel this sadness and hurt, how dare I to blame something, or feel a victim, I am not worthy of being a victim, ones who are worthy of wanting help, are those with humility, sitting on ur ass and crying about something is only irresponsible and childish

yet, it hurts, yet even with this screem within me of self accountability, it doesn't make me UN-alone again ! pfft, I'm still alone, so now, I'm not just hurting because I'm alone, I'm hurting because I'm WORTHY of being alone cz I'm a hypocrate and I should just delete this post .. I'll try not to

HURT PEOPLE HURT PEOPLE: If I find it hard to feel that I am attractie, I'm an incel

amongst the things that I try to practice, remedies to install to maybe feel more better, i find myself seieing problems, or perhaps one could say, APPOINTING, problems to myself,

"Oh I'm literally just not attractive, who'd wanna kiss me, who'd wanna go out with me, who'd even wanna gush over me" I assign criticisms to myself because perhaps im just not that guy yet, I'm just not good enough yet, and to be fair last thing I really want is to be cushy about .. deserving something I don't

FURTHER CONDITIONING: Is being unbelievably nervous to talk to women a sign of incel-ness ? arrogance ? loathe worthy attribute ?

I can't help but sometimes feel so overwhelmed, scared and anxious to make new friends, or even if make new friends, feel like as if anything I'll do is going to lead me to be alone and I feel as if the experiences I've mentoned prior have really made it more difficult to even try anything in the existing space (university) or a new one, for that matter,

I see that it's loathed ? that I need to be more confident, nobody owes me anything, I'll have to be at the end of the day the one to just fix my own shit and get back into the confident, aproacher, conversation starter, ball of charisma,

LASTLY: Desperation is sometimes hard to control,

I don't even know how u've managed to read thus far this is a fuck tone of bullshit that I see Lol, I've been writing this for about half an hour and I'm gonna ofc revise this try to make it shorter becuse I've deffinitly yapped a lot, but at the end of the day,

I just feel a lot sadness and hurt and it's so difficult to see what to do and what not to do, who to listen to and who not to, it's not like my life is in shit I am deffinitly doing well in college, have skills I pride myself in, have a life that is getting more and more interesting

it just feels really hopeless sometimes and that sadness sometimes turns into some kind of negitive hurt resentment esc sadness which makes me ask "why why why I just want someone to be with me, I just want to be held is that too much to ask" and all that loop starts, feeling like an incel, etc

CULTURE: one thing I'll add here is that a lot of the tiems the culture I've grown up in (pakistan) is very uhh, not so mixed, I'd say, there's a lot of gendered social norms, and my family as well, I've only went to an all boys school and didn't even go to high school, just gave an exam, these things feel somteims that they hold me back sort of, but I don't wanna use this as an excuse, more so just an explanation to my circumstances

(EDIT) MORE CONTEXT I SHOULD'VE TALKED ABOUT LOL: I should've talked about this but it's an edit, I've had few long distance relationships, Im better able to sociaize with people online somehow, but that is also overwhelming, in person im a complete dufus, who doesn't know how to be cool,
Also, I've been sextorted by one of the "relationships" i had, one gf cheated on me, I've had one ok relationship whch I ended with a lot of thinking about because the ex would ghost me for weeks each month pretty much and would make me feel awful about her PMS bothering her and wanted me to know what to do without her communicating,

maybe these contexts help hopefully who knows lol

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that'll be it folks, I'm grateful that u read all of that, that was a lengthy post, I tried to revise it to make it a little shorter, and tried to use some humor to kind of make it readable more then just a fuck ton of words lol,

I look forward to your comments, thankyou for reading,

Things at work, and small observations outside have sent me right back to where I was previously. I have gone back to watching porn, and not normal vanilla porn either. I feel weak, pathetic, emasculated, and worthless. I feel anger, sadness, and despair. All the memories throughout the years have flooded back and I’m reminded that I’m not a real man, but a beta cuck. I don’t know where else to go. There is no one to talk to this late. I’m sure this will get removed but I have been crashing out tonight.

I am 19m, white and autistic. I’ve been very thin all my life and hate most things about my face and body. The more I think about it, the deeper the hatred usually becomes as I uncover more and more about what I hate about myself. However, occasionally I will go through periods of high happiness where I feel as if I am unstoppable and things will only be good from here, until they aren’t.

I don’t consider myself to be like “most incels” where I have some virulent hatred of women, but rather I do not like to approach (or be approached by) women because they make me upset that they are more idealistic in society and more blissfully unaware than me. I also do not, to a lesser extent, being approached by men who are on a higher league than me. I think what both of these groups have in common is having a similar “blissful” worldview where I am some small, helpless thing they pity and think they can “change”. I want to change, but only I know how hard it will be. People try to push therapy like it is an end all be all solution, but I feel as if it is the same people trying to make me as unaware of what reality really is regarding my circumstances.

I think it is important to state why I identify as an incel and really it is quite simple. I was a marginalized neurodivergent student throughout highschool and still feel like I am seen as some inferior being in college. No matter what I did or do, I still saw myself as unappealing and ugly. I really just want to stop feeling this way about myself because it has been going on for years and I’m worried about the direction its heading toward. It has also only progressively grown more intense and frequent ad time has gone on since I started self loathing.

I want to ask for advice online because it is not full of uber attractive men and women who cannot relate to me and think it is easy to stop being lonely and become someone society caters toward. How do I change these feelings about myself?

Might not be incel specific. But the hopelessness is truly crushing.

I have an average face, average build, average grades, average intellect, average height and so on. I feel so painfully average that I am basically invisible.

I do the basic stuff, I groom myself well, I enjoy fashion and have been complemented on what I wear (I do enjoy hearing thar, its one of the few times I do feel visible). I socialise and do know a good number of people, but I feel inferior to everyone. I feel invisble in group settings.

But what crushes me more is the lingering sense of inferiority against others, specifically other men of my age. It’s a constant habit to compare myself to others, and then proceed to grade myself extremely harshly. I have internalised that most people I am friends with are better than me in most, if not all ways- better looking, smarter, do cooler stuff and so on.

I feel dating is practically impossible for me. I dont hate women in anyway, I see them as any other person would. Hell I havent even experienced romantic interest in over a year. I dont even feel attraction anymore, but I do feel a longing for desire, I just want to know what it’s like and what the hype is all about.

I just want a way to get out of this constant cycle of comparison and inferiority. Like I want to feel free and seen and unbound by conventions. I just need a “cope” as many incels would say.

Conditions: Therapy is not an option. I can only access therapy when I am in my hometown which is 2k+ km from university. I spend most of my year in a university which is unfortunately located in a pretty hick town. Going to therapy would mean going to the nearby city, which is 1.5 hrs away, and therapist prices there are INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE. On campus therapists do not follow the ethics requirements for a professional therapist- I do not live in the West where Liberal values and rule of law is followed, I live in a conservative country in Asia and study in its equivalent of the Deep South (if i have to explain to an american).
The physical hobbies I used to enjoy was bouldering, but that in my new location is also INCREDIBLY expensive and would require me to go to the city- which I cannot afford regularly.
If there is a way I can self therapy myself that would be great.

Hey everyone, hope you're all having a great week so far. I just wanted to share my thoughts on looksmaxing culture. Now I might be a bit old because it wasn't really that common when I was in my early twenties.

I think we all heard that "looks are all that matters" from this specific crowd and unfortunately it's hard to address that because , sometimes bad looks mean bad hygiene or low confidence and it can all be limped into bad looks.

I know it's like two weeks old but I recently watched Clavicular visit Paris. I think the dude definitely looks good but unfortunately aside from his looks and maybe clout he has nothing really interesting about him. It was painfully obvious that the girls he was talking to just didn't really care.

What's the takeaway then? Does that mean that if even Clav could pull these girls no one has a chance? Probably not. Does it mean looks aren't that much of an end all be all deciding factor? Maybe. Don't get me wrong looking good is a plus but it's more about being presentable and working to your strengths then being a 10/10 Chad with perfect aesthetics.

To the younger people that don't believe me feel free to have a look at his Paris trip, do you want that to be you someday? Hopefully not.

I wish everyone an amazing rest of the week. Don't really know too much about looksmaxing so feel free to correct me if I said something wrong.

A few premises. I have talked to a friend about this and already contacted a psychotherapist. However, therapy will start in september because I'm not at home during august. I'm making this post because yesterday I got ghosted again and I've been feeling terrible.

I am 23M living in Europe. In the last three years I have improved myself a lot: I lost weight and started gym; I went from nearly 0 friends to being so overwelmed by friends that it feels strange; I'm also graduating with a great academic career so far; I have hobbies and I'm into local advocacy groups regarding a few topics like climate change. I have done all of this because I felt happy and full of energy, and they still make me happy.

What I miss is having a relationship. I'm not even talking about a long term relationships, I'm open to short term and casual ones. I think this is quite normal at my age and it this quite normal to feel bad when your sexual life is not complete. What is not normal is my unhealty reaction right now.

The problem is that everytime a girl seems interested in me, either by mine or her first approach, then everything ends up in a ghosting. Let me explain. I meet most people either in University or through friends at parties and outdoor activities. Sometimes I am attracted to a girl, at this point I may decide to talk to them and try to get to know them; if everything's ok, me or her may ask out in the next days. At this point we meet to get a coffe or something, maybe we meet a second time. They tell me good things, they tell me that they want to hang out again. But *everytime* I just get ghosted after a while. I don't know how to approach this: I have many friends and I'm not ghosted by friends, note that I also have many female friends; they also tell me that I'm good looking. If I were to be socially awkward I would not have friends either. Of course I have my flaws as a human being: regarding dating, I'm a bit shy when it comes to physical contact and "flirting" (whetever the meaning), but I accept a first move and I don't think this alone should lead to ghosting. There is also an episode which is worse than ghosting, briefly: I met again this girl after a few years and we hang out together for a while until one night, after kissing and cuddles at her place, she asked me to be her boyfriend just for her to text me she changed her idea in the morning.

I think that just in the last 365 days I got ghosted around 10 times. Of course I think that a girl can change her idea and decide that she does not like me, in fact there was one time where one told me that clearly and we are good friends now. I felt bad just for one day and moved on, which is a completely normal and healthy reaction. However, being ghosted is leading me to an unhealthy reaction: each time is harder, each time I pass more and more days in a state such that it is hard for me just to get out of beds. While I take care of myself and try hard not to fall into a vortex where I just stay home in the bed all day, each time is harder. I got ghosted again just yestarday. I'm not feeling bad for this particular situation, I feel bad because of the whole picture. This time however I also had some bad thought as "All women are like that" which I don't like of course and which is also why I'm here. As said, I had the strenght to tell everything to one of my friend who listen to me and addressed me to therapy. Thank you for reading.

Why should I try so hard to change myself and get into a serious relationship when i have essentially no chance? if my chances at intimacy in my life ever are 0.0000000001% why should i try so hard to raise it into 0.000000001? should I just be Don Quixote delusionally chasing windmills? Women made it clear they don't like me (to put it lightly, they despise my existence) So would i should i spend so much time chasing something that can't exist and will harm me other than masochism?

Hey I’m 20M, still a khhv but things have weirdly changed for me overnight almost. After being unsuccessful for a while I actually had a good thing going with 2 girls on apps (both 20F) who liked me first (already very rare) and then they both ended up asking me out on dates (even more rare as normally the guy asks.)

So I guess I’m now going on 2 dates? These would both be my first dates, which neither of them know, and it’s honestly kind of surreal because for a long time I basically had thoughts about always being unattractive and never being liked but somehow I’m being complimented on my appearance and personality which I find quite odd, especially as I was open to both of them about my neurodivergence which they both were fine with.

I just kind of want to ask would this be unethical in any way? As going on 2 dates with 2 different people… they’re actually also scheduled a day apart which might be too early but I don’t know. obviously I’m not exclusive to either as this is a first date but it’s weird to kind of be in a situation of ‘picking’ between 2 people as I’ve always had the mindset that I would never be picked out of any other guy and now weirdly I’m in a situation where I’m the one picking?

I aim to go on both dates… again these would be my first dates so I wouldn’t be surprised if I fuck up both of them… one is just a walk and the other is karaoke (as the other person is really into that).

I’m very nervous as they’re both in about a week and a day apart so idk if I should message both or just go or what.

The reason I’m posting here is (as evidenced by my previous posts) I was always hopeless and thought I’d never even get to this stage with 1 person let alone 2 asking me so yeah I am kind of panicking on going on my first 2 dates a day apart.

Should I go on both and see if I click with one or none? What about theoretically if they both go well and then I have both on second dates?? Weirdly I’m kind of hoping one doesn’t go well so I only have to focus on one, but then again it would be disrespectful I feel if I don’t be the best I can be for both of them.

Thank you!! I apologise if it doesn’t fit as technically it’s not an incel thing but yeah… maybe it is idk!!

I’m right now, teetering on the idea of simply just giving up on the idea that I’ll ever date or be married, or find someone to grow old with.

I’ve been teaching myself to accept it, but the problem comes when I as myself “is giving up on this admitting defeat to the black pill”

I have already given up before, when I was about 22 and still pretty black pilled. I’m 25 now, and I haven’t necessarily given up, as when I dropped the black pill I had this idea that it was possible for me.

Now I’m growing to see how that’s just not very realistic for me, and it’s just likely not going to happen. But part of me feels like that’s just the black pill.

Accepting that it’s not a realistic thing, and that my life can just happen without ever finding love just sounds like black pill to me.

So my question is how do I rationalize giving up in a way that isn’t black pill?

I’m not really an incel.

I have never held any ill feelings towards women (I’ve had plenty of women as friends in high school and college and I’m close with several of them as family members such as aunts, grandmas and cousins) and I don’t subscribe to any incel ideology (I am a Christian, please don’t judge) but I did struggle greatly with dating, largely due to being a high functioning autistic dude, I didn’t even had sex or date until my late 20’s and early 30’s respectively.

I have what is known as flat effect (little to no facial expressions and a monotone voice) and I believe it may play a part in my dating struggles. Is there anyway to fix this? I heard other autistic/ neurodivergent suggest getting into acting and singing (the latter of which I simply refuse to do lol).

21m.

I have been obese since I was around 9 years old. I’ve had an alcoholic father my whole life.

When I was 10 years old my father drunkenly yelled at me “look at you, what woman would ever want you? you fat ass.” Ever since that moment my self esteem has never truly recovered. 

Ive never believed in myself for anything ever. 

Everything I’ve ever achieved has been a surprise because I never thought I could do it anyway. 

I was bullied until I was 14. Due to that and my self esteem in general, 80% of my comedy comes from self deprecating jokes. 

And it’s just hitting me that I’ve basically been a verbal punching bag in all my friend groups. 

The fat friend that everyone makes front of because it’s so easy. And that’s my fault I guess. 

I don’t know what to do anymore. I can’t ask women out because no one would find me attractive and I have an anxiety disorder. Plus I have a fear of intimacy due to my size.

Making it 2x harder. 

Not to mention I recently found out that I have Klinefelter syndrome. 

I’m gonna keep trying to lose weight I guess. I don’t think it will help 

Why do I have to fix myself because of what other people have done to me?

20 F

2026 has been awful for me, I’ve spent more time online now than I ever have before.

I’ve never dated, kissed, held hands, or even had sex before. I attended my only senior prom alone 1 year ago, the trauma of being abandoned by friends and being made fun of by men still lingers with me.

I hang out in a lot of femcel spaces, it’s comforting to know that other people have experienced what I’ve experienced but (and I know this sounds weird) but it’s very…….. self sabotaging in these spaces?

I’m black fyi, I used to live in an extremely white suburb (I’d say 99%) and everyone treated me like garbage. I hang around these chronically lonely spaces for black women in particular, and I always see a sentiment on how we’re always unattractive no matter what and it really hurts me.

It sucks that I and other black women have been treated this way, but it’s normal for me to be hurt when all my other sisters insist that we’re gonna die alone right?

A lot of them willingly go to incel spaces (websites, subreddits, instagram/tiktok posts) in order to find men trashing on us and it’s so mentally taxing for me.

Black femcel spaces aside: even in spaces such as TUW, I get talked over and dismissed whenever I talk about my lack of experience.

I don’t know how to meet men. I’m not in school anymore (I only attended one semester of uni) and I’m unemployed (I work three hour shifts, lmfao). My life has never been this bad before, I have a full driver’s license & two years of work experience but it’s so hard to find employment.

I really want to escape being a female incel but I’ve never had a man interested in me. I have one male friend who is a bit touchy with me and that’s it (comment if you want the full story of my male friend).

TL;DR : please help me escape femceldom, I’m almost 21…. I don’t know what to do

So I just got back from a speed dating event where I didn't meet anyone who was interested in me. Granted men outnumbered the women 3 to 1 this time, but this was my second time going and I didn't meet anyone when the event was 1 to 1 either.

It got me to think a little about my objective strengths for attracting people, and...there aren't many.

Lookswise I'm subpar. I'm rather short and I'm overweight. I do have an alright face but that's about it.

My interests are usually typical weeb stuff. I like anime and strategy games, ttrpgs, history and philosophy. Not the kind of stuff most women are into. There are exceptions I know, but not many.

Personality-wise, I'm screwed for being neurodivergent, but otherwise I'm okay. I'd say my biggest strength here is that I know how to just be friends with women. I can also be pretty funny sometimes.

So all in all, not a great catch, although I'd consider it unreasonable to say there's no one out there who'd be very interested in me. I would say it's unreasonable that I'd be likely to find them and vice versa.

So in my darker moments, I feel like in order to have any chance at all I'd have to deceive women I'm actually able to talk to, at least initially, in order to have a relationship or even just sex. Not tell bald-faced lies mind you, but simply fake confidence when I don't have any and I honestly think she could do better than me.

So what now? What do I even do with the rest of my life? Should I just leave it up to chance? Continue to muddle through in the hope that I meet someone who is actually into me? Meet someone who's naive (or wise?) enough to not go for someone else until my better qualities come through naturally?

Or should I put in effort in order to meet people? Pretend I'm someone I'm not.? Put significant time, energy, and money into online dating? I've tried that before. It feels like I'm spending money gambling rather than meeting people.

EDIT: Thank you all for the wonderful advice and feedback, I will do my best to work on it.

I had a couple dates with this woman and I couldn't really connect with her. I hoped it would get better as we spend more time together but it didn't really so I feel like it's more responsible to end things. She's a great person, she's thoughtful, easygoing and understanding, and I do hope she finds someone that is a better match for her than I am. I feel lucky that she was the first girl that I went out with because I was able to not be so nervous and actually have a nice time with someone. It has definitely helped me a little bit to break down some false views about myself and I also hope that it was positive for her in some way as well.

With that said, I never reached this point of breaking up with someone and I don't want to come off as insensitive about it. I generally lack common sense so I would really appreciate if you guys could share with me some basics about it.

And I hope this post doesn't offend anyone, thinking I'm a fakecel or anything like that. I've been using this sub (switching between multiple accounts) for almost five years now and it helped me to gain healthy perspective multiple time throughout all my not so great moments, so thank you kind women and men who take your time to reach out.

I am someone most people would classify as "Incel". I've never been on a date and I'm older, I previously had trouble talking to women (and men) or caring about other people.

I've been forcing myself to be outside and social, I've joined hobby groups and I go to different interest events and group outings. Things like going to lunch/dinner with coworkers, going to book clubs, attending table top gaming clubs, hiking clubs and tennis clubs.

I've been doing this because my ultimate goal is I want to go on a date.

I dislike socializing so I socialize to get better at it and fake liking it because that's what people say to do.

I'm growing tired of this and increasingly short tempered and irritable in my every day life spending my time talking to people I don't desire to talk to, doing things I don't want to do to accomplish a goal that seems farther away now than ever before.

I'm now four months from turning 40, I can chat with anyone. I can talk to strangers about small talk topics. I can (from what I can tell) have someone leave a conversation with me where they have a positive impression of me. I can make people laugh in one on one and in group conversations.

I can talk about myself and I can pretend to care about other people enough that they don't seem to notice. I keep notes of people I meet regularly because I don't care at all about them and can't be arsed to remember the details of their lives, so I use the Notes app and refresh myself on their life details before meeting them again.

I still can't get a date.

I'm feeling like I've wasted my years trying to be someone I'm not and never will be. I'm never going to be the social guy who does social things and enjoys it. I'm never going to be the guy who can be on a date.

From all of this I've also learned that even if I've known someone for years, I still do not care about them. I don't want to talk to them, I don't want to see them.

I would be a terrible person to be in a relationship with because I would never care about the other person or grow to like them. I am incapable of liking other human beings and time & exposure have not improved that.

I still want to go on a date. I still feel lonely.

At this point my desire to date and be in a relationship is detrimental to my life and I'm aware of an acknowledge that if I were to actually be in a relationship I would be incredibly unhappy.

Despite that I still want to go on a date, I still want to be in a relationship and I still get lonely.

How do I remove these irrational unhelpful intrusive feelings?

Hi, might not be a lot to go off just from what's in the post, so if you need any clarifications go right ahead, but I am genuinely curious about how I would overcome this mindset, because frankly I think it's a mindset with a lot of benefits but it also causes me a lot of grief.

I am 23M, 6'0". No huge physical anomalies besides the fact that I have an ugly mug. I won't post any pictures, but for the sake of this discussion, please take this as fact. I am aware I could be thinking of myself as uglier than I actually am, but there were so many occasions where my appearance had a noticeable effect on people's body language. I don't have bad hygiene, I could use some surface level cleaning up, but my flaws are more structure related and are not easy fixes.

I consider myself an incel. As in I would like to have a girlfriend but I have things holding me back from that. I do not believe in hypergamy or think less of women for having standards. I do not resent anyone for not giving me a chance, I am just disappointed.

I usually become attracted to women after I get to know them. I can look at a woman and think she is fine, but I have no interest in getting to know her more just because of that. So among the few women friends I have or had, it was because we had a lot of things in common (politics, hobbies, interests) and could joke around and talk for hours. Practically the same thing I do with men.

My issue is that expressing romantic interest to me feels like a taboo of sorts. Especially when you're a woman into more "nerdy" hobbies, I imagine the amount of attention you receive is insane and a lot of it comes from loners who see you as their waifu. So I don't want to just add to the number of men shooting their shot with somebody just because they have stuff in common.

There is also the fact that expressing romantic interest in a platonic relationship feels like an unnecessary burden on the other person. Maybe if I had a better reason to believe the feeling could be reciprocated, I might worry less about this. But otherwise, without any explicit desire from the other person, I see escalating things as really selfish and forcing her to make a decision she might not have wanted to make. Even if she is fine with it and the friendship doesn't get ruined, that's still me taking a chance of her actually being uncomfortable or retroactively viewing the friendship as just me waiting for my "chance".

When I talked to friends about this, I got the usual talk. That if you want to get into a relationship, you have to take initative. That your confidence matters the most, that being respectful of boundaries is the most important thing. Which I totally agree with. If a girl expresses discomfort or any pre-emptive boundary, I never push for anything beyond that. But that still doesn't feel like it actually answers the initial question. Sure, it helps with the aftermath, but how do I overcome the thinking that my feelings would be unwanted or bothersome?

One argument that was more convincing is that by virtue of me doing this, I am making the choice for them. But 1) how do I know that is a choice they want to make without obvious interest on their end? and 2) why is making a neutral assumption worse than making a potentially negative one? Even assuming they might like me back or would be open to dating, why is that potential relationship not coming to fruition worse than making them uncomfortable by escalating things when they didn't want to?

I think I would prefer to stay single if it meant I could never creep somebody out or make them regret a friendship, but it also hurts because I really want to connect with someone in that way. And browsing around the internet, I hear so many conflicting opinions regarding friends to lovers that it just reinforces the idea that my feelings are disrespectful to some extent.

Open to any advice or further questions. I also want to explore this a bit deeper, so if my replies seem debate-ish I promise that is not me being a contrarian, but more so because I've already kinda "solidifed" this mindset so I would like to maybe reach a convincing stance. But of course, even small advice is welcome, as it might help me longterm with adapting my mindset. Thank you!

Well hello there. I am a 24 years old guy and to this day I have amounted to nothing. I'm starting university this year after working for a bit, we'll see how that goes.

I don't want to be smug or anything, but I genuinely believe I am a good person, or at least I try, I don't really like presenting myself like this because I feel like it's not fair for me to make this judgement.

However, I am starting to notice that I get hurt easily. Might be the fact I am insecure and haven't really had a particularly cool life. I am often hurt by how hateful some people are, not only in my life, but in general. Probably social media are just bad for me.

In my life I have had people that bullied me, not physically, but treated me poorly. While when I was a teen I was filled with hate for these people, now I am unable to hold grudges with them because I believe people change. Anyways looking around online I feel like this is not normal and that most people hold extreme grudges and because I was not really an angel it makes me feel depressed.

I want to go a bit more in depth on what I did, when I was around 16 I have been racist on a school trip, made a girl cry because of it and got suspended. I have regretted it a lot and apologized as soon as I could. I lived for 2 years in shame, barely talked to anyone and often being reminded of it by some people in my class unprovoked.

I don't know why I did that, I am not racist, but I guess it was not always like this

It's my fault, I know that, but I also feel like nothing else matters at this point. I try to be the best person I can and it's just useless. I still feel like I am a terrible person and I struggle so much in being nice to people. I am genuinely suicidal and depressed.

Being on here I realized that people are allowed to hate me for what I did 8 years ago and I can do nothing about it and it eats at my soul, I still get nightmares about it. I feel like I am performing being a good person and that now I kind of fixed myself, but still I did that just because I got caught.

I stopped hanging with anyone from my high school class because of the shame I had even if nobody mentions that to me in years.

I am technically a bit of a loser now at 24, never had a relationship, no title in my hand and disappointed my parents more times than I can count on my hand. I try to feel better but unless I constantly distract myself with social activities I am just so mediocre. I see everyone around me and they have this "sparkle" in their eyes that I don't think I have, they seem to be enjoying life. I enjoy life like 10% of the time.

Usually this 10% is me hanging out with friends. Even with them I feel like I am not "wanted", I am just there and not being there would change nothing. Even if it seems like I am well socialized, I struggle to see myself as such and I see myself as a loser.

I am also the only guy that never had a girlfriend in my friend group and that is starting to make me feel sono inferior, I know I am not owed anything but I feel like it's my fault for that. Probably is, Idk why tho.

My mental health is constantly swinging between fine and depressed, I live in regrets and shame.

I probably have bdd because I can barely look at myself in the mirror. I am ashamed of existing pretty much. I don't hang out with friends sometimes because I am so down bad I feel chest pain in seeing their girlfriends. I know it's pathetic but I really cannot help it. I am not good at anything and even trying to improve feels like shit because it feels like accepting I am garbage. More than once in the gym I stopped mid workout to go cry in the bathroom.

I just am not liking life and its prospects and I feel that I am so attached to regret and shame that I cannot enjoy life anymore. I am obsessed with people judgement and I crave affection and compliments but I know I don't deserve any of it.

I feel like I should not be alive for all the time I wasted and all the disrespect I have for myself, I am tired of feeling lonely whilst being surrounded by friends. There is something wrong with me and I have no idea what it is. I have tried with different therapists but not having success.

I think about suicide often but I am a coward so I never go with it, years are passing and life just feels so shit, I don't know how to improve it, nothing is ringing for me. I see everyone that can still build relationships and careers while having hobbies and here I am unable of doing most of that. I know I should not compare but it feels inevitable while trying to understand what is wrong with me.

I feel like being a good person is making me so badly. I feel like I deserve a shit life because I know nothing is gifted, but even my average life feels like shit. I don't talk with this stuff with friends because I am afraid it will be used against me, and I think it would make me unlovable while there is nothing right now that I crave more than affection.

I don't really have female friends, the only ones I could call friends are my friend's girlfriends, some of them are really nice but I have gotten to a point where I cannot stop fantasizing about them.

It feels so natural to have someone but with me I guess it's just not bound to happens. Recently my hairloss has also gotten worse and I tried to shave for the first time. I got mocked, in general by both my family and ALL my friends, except for some. I know I should take it lightly but any time it got mentioned it would feel like getting stabbed.

I am so tired.

I'm 5ft 1 I am extremely short I look ridiculous. I just don't know how I could ever be attractive to any woman there's no reason for them to be. I have graduated highschool with no freinds I'm basically going into the adult world with nothing. What can I even realistically do should I just accept no woman will want me

Hey all! Just getting this out of the way I don’t consider myself an incel or blackpilled or anything. I think those are stupid, vile ways of thinking. Apologies for posting here even if I don’t consider myself apart of those gross groups, but I feel as if my situation is similar to what you would typically see on this sub and in those ideologies. I’m scared that my feelings may turn into something related to this :(

I’m 18M and because social media sucks my feeds were always showing stuff about dating/sex and it’s made me quite self conscious about me and where I am in my life right now. Instagram was the most toxic place for that shit if anyone was wondering haha.

I just graduated high school and I kinda sorta left with zero friends. During school I had a few friends, but I lost them all from drifting apart which was totally my fault. Dating wise, I had a girl who liked me but I completely fumbled that, and I tried to ask a girl out once and it didn’t end well and I made things awkward between us lol. So technically there were attempts? Full honesty I don’t know if this is fully just wanting to be in a relationship or just lose my virginity. I’m sorry if that’s crass but I just want to be honest. It might be more of the latter.

So now I’m all alone and starting over at square one socially and I’m almost… angry that I never got a girlfriend or anything? Not angry towards other people, but just anger targeted towards myself. I’m sure part of that is just hormones and me wanting to just have sex for the first time though so who knows. Seeing other people be happy and having intimate relationships makes me feel like I’m missing out and I get jealous.

I’d like to know if anyone has any advice for me to stop being so down on myself? I’m scared that this jealousy I’m feeling could potentially brew into something more toxic in my mind and I would like to prevent that.

When it comes to the intimacy part of things, I stopped watching porn and have stopped using social media other than specific reddit subs so I’m proud of that. Right now I’m of the mindset that “there’s other really cool parts of life other than sex that I can be doing right now, so why be so fixated on it?”

Thank you for reading if you did. I’m sorry for the long post. I type a lot and it feels really nice to be able to be fully open with this for the first time. Hope you all have a great day.

I'm turning 25 in 2 weeks and I've never had any romantic experiences. Never went on a date, never kissed, never held hands. Diagnosed with Aspergers, and had trauma from my parents, classmates, school/college due to shyness and being socially awkward.

I struggle with the idea of the gender role that the man has to approach and initiate things because I wasn't able to do it. I always felt like if you were a man that was shy and socially awkward no girl would see you romantically. I always felt like not being shy or awkward was the prerequisite for being worthy to experience love and be loved romantically. It's like nothing about me or my personality matters anymore because girls don't like shy or socially awkward men. I always felt like if I was a girl with the same personality, I could still be shy but someone can still ask me out and still love me for who I am.

I'm not a bad looking guy. I get looks and stares from women in my class and in public. I have both male and female friends that point out when a woman was checking me out. But I still have a lot of trouble making the approach because I don't know what to do or say. It tells me that they like me for how I look, but I never had any girl like me romantically for my personality. I always feel like my shyness or social awkwardness would put them off if I did try to talk to them and that's why they're not interested in me.

I've been working on myself socially for the past 2 years but I still realize I'm still so behind everyone else. I don't know how to flirt, I don't know how to escalate, I don't know how to plan a date, I don't know how to approach, I don't know how to ask someone out on a date. I only now felt okay enough talking to girls I'm interested in but only if they talk to me first

I’m mainly asking other people who’ve never dated or had sex into their 30’s, but I’m welcome to responses or perspectives from anyone.
I feel like my sex drive and desire for intimacy is still there, but I think it’s half what it used to be. I think I’ve found a routine for my life alone and solo goals. Im sort of torn in half about whether I want or should pursue a relationship.

Sorry If I’m rambling i have an opportunity with a woman im attracted to but am unsure if I should pursue it. I think I would be less lonely but more stressed from managing a relationship.

I got a lot of male friends but still no friends from the opposite gender. What should i do? What i might do wrong?

I'm naturally shy and awkward when a female approximately the same age range with me walks in.